Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

@PurpleChrayne seeing as you are busy reporting racist posts don't forget to report this one too

It’s strange that in the face of facts and history the anti Jew crowd start saying “oh you’re so nasty” etc.

has Israel ever done anything wrong - yea of course, every country has.

But what do you expect when Israel, a country established in order to provide a safe haven for a people who have suffered atrocities against them for 3000 years has a neighbour who states their intention to effectively wipe them out!

Given the history and continued anti semitism it’s really not surprising that they want close control of their boarders and want to retain control over areas where these self declared jihadists exist.

what would you like to happen? How would you solve the problem?

Unfortunately the dictionaries change very rapidly these days but the current Cambridge dictionary definition of terrorism is:

'(threats of) violent action for political purposes'

TERRORISM | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary

They used to have a caveat of 'against civilians' but that appears to have been memory holed recently.

Knock yourself out honey.

Could you please quote the anti-Jewish posts? I am struggling to see anything other than criticism of the Israeli government. Only those posters making accusations of anti-semitism mention "the Jews" instead of the Israeli state, that I can see.
Jews are not to blame, the Israeli government is...?

Maybe because it is well established that Hamas (and Hezbollah) is supported and receives funds from other Islamic states. That anti semitism is rife in many (not all by any means Islamic states) - Islam, together with Christianity has a long and well documented anti Semitic view. Many former “Christian” states are now secularised and such views are not tolerated

Sarcasm is meant to be witty, I didn't see any. I wouldn't enjoy it at the expense of a whole people, no.
You didn't react positively when a post the same as yours was directed at Israel and not Palestine...

Sorry but once someone takes a criticism of Israel and lazily makes it an "anti Jew" thing I will refuse to take (what I thought was a respectful conversation conversation) any further. Enjoy your day!

Is @Parkingt111 a whole people now? Wow. Like wow. 😆

So you have been reassured that your original worries that 1000s of Palestinian civilians had been killed and that Israel had blown up a hospital were (thankfully) untrue but you're still set on disbelieving the Jews? And after you'd tried sooo hard to stay neutral and believe they weren't baddies...

Coroners have confirmed baby beheadings

Ah there is no anti semitism involved in this at all then? I see…..

Also isn't it strange. It seem Hamas was planning this attack on Israel for approximately a year. In this time how did Israel not intercept any calls with sensitive information?
But suddenly within hours it has intercepted Hamas's call
Also it is well known that Hamas don't use names or locations of where they fire rockets from rather they use numbers or codes
I do not for one second believe Israel
If they lied about shireen Abu Akleh then they surely are capable of lying about this

Ah, it’s almost like this is the first terrorist attack that has ever slipped past intelligence services!!🤦‍♀️

She specifically said "the Israeli government" - not "the Jews".

They are not the same thing, you know! Most of Israel very much happens to agree that they are not! Half of the front pages of Israeli papers today concern not what is happening in Gaza but about how internally politically divided Israel is - and how that is currently spilling over into whom people are blaming for the horrific attacks!

@Maatandosiris I know! A whole year in planning and they didn't get any wind of it. Shocking right
No wonder some of the Israeli people feel their government has failed them

No I didn't know that. People should try quoting the right thing then shouldn't they. It's not that hard. I trust that most people are capable of following a conversation, so report me all day long if you like. And if MNHQ have the same trouble following a conversation as you appear to, so be it. That's censorship for you, and as a free speech advocate I don't mind being collateral damage while both sides furiously demand that Big Brother silence the other.

You didn't aim it at the poster, you aimed it at pro-Palestinians... anyway, I don't want to derail further replying to faux confusion. The thread has been derailed enough as it is.

Not at all, it's sad that you are intellectually unable to distinguish between prejudice and legitimate policy criticism. Blanket labeling undermines the depth of the Israeli-Palestinian situation. But I'm certain you were not interested in constructive dialogue anyway. Just label everyone who doesn't agree with Israel as "anti-jew". As I said, super lazy. Enjoy your day, I hope you find the echo chamber you seem to be looking for!

I ask again - please quote the antisemitism. I only see criticism of the Israeli government. Where is the anti-Jewish post(s)?

Where did you see/read that?

Well I didn’t see much reporting on the terrorist murder of a innocent 70 year old by a Muslim bloke in Hartlepool the other day.

Media outlets are trying to verify the information that has been released by Israel.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67141589?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=652f950c364b3f1612ec556d%26Israel%20releases%20clip%20which%20it%20says%20shows%20militants%20caused%20hospital%20blast%262023-10-18T08%3A28%3A26.830Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:56a4365a-a162-4e59-8b03-a77607e7ba44&pinned_post_asset_id=652f950c364b3f1612ec556d&pinned_post_type=share

It is disputed who fired the rocket. To callously fire a rocket into a hospital is a terrible thing.

With all of the UN presence on the ground, it would be very helpful if experts could review the site, and determine the source of the weapon.

MNHQ need to provide a definition of anti-semitransparent rather than bowing to pressure of organised groups deliberately planted on here to shut down debate.
@Bloomingmagnolia It’s almost as if you’re implying there’s some sort of nefarious cabal trying to control everything.
I’m just a Jew who is sick to death of posters who are unable to discuss the situation without all their antisemitic bias coming out to play, and then whining about censorship, with bonus points added for when certain posters pointing out the repeated use of antisemitic tropes and language are met with the “organised groups/shadowy puppet masters controlling the narrative” response. Which is in itself an antisemitic trope, just to be crystal clear.