Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Yes because we blindly believe unnamed US “experts”. The same US that backs Israel in whatever it does and perpetuated the lies about “40 beheaded babies” that no one could prove and which had to be walked back by Joe Biden but caused immense harm in stirring up widespread public support for the current crimes in Gaza.

I get this!

Personally, I have - finally; I suppose all the black "I am so immune that the government are about to arrive and harvest my DNA" jokes have finally caught up with me - currently got COVID for the first time. And, (thanks for asking!) I am doing relatively fine but am just feeling so, so, so VERY EXHAUSTED!

And, yet, I feel guilty for not successfully managing to reach out to more people, attempt more stuff! Because I was brought up to believe that, when shit hit the fan, it was my job to get up, stand up, and say something!

CEASEFIRE NOW!!!

Thanks for providing that. 👍

Israeli government ally says it "believes" Hamas fired the rocket.

I would advise anyone to check BBC Verify as I mentioned upthread, the original poster asked for proof - this is still speculation.

It's horrible feeling so helpless. I follow many of the Palestinian journalists who film live from Gaza on social media. Who are on the spot in the immediate aftermath of attacks like Motaz azaiza on instagram but I have decided not to go on my social media this evening. I can't take seeing any more dead and burnt children.

I don't understand why our governments refuse to do more to stop it. When is it enough? When will the collective punishment stop

If you're feeling helpless, the Red Cross are looking for donations. I completely understand not everyone is in a position to do so, I have been donating when I can. They are on the ground in Gaza helping where they can. They are also impartial, helping whoever needs it regardless of anything else:

As a neutral, impartial and independent humanitarian Movement we respond solely based on need and without discrimination.
Our Movement partners, the Magen David Adom in Israel, the Palestine Red Crescent Society and the ICRC, are on the ground, providing humanitarian assistance in accordance with the Movement’s Fundamental Principles.

I would advise anyone to ...

... yes, I am sorry, but this will take a while! ...

... wait for an independent investigation! Personally, I will take the word of any international agency such as any UN body, Amnesty, HRW, ICRC! Or that of any "credible record of actual, lived (albeit imperfect!) neutral" country: Ireland! Switzerland! Here you go!)

Also:

CEASEFIRE NOW!!!

I have donated to charity but goodness knows where it will end up.

I have sponsored various children over the years via a charity; the country gets chosen at random. In 2020 I was ‘allocated’ a 12y girl in Palestine. They can’t give me any updates obviously. I hope she is ok.

There is a war going on in Ukraine due to Russia invasion. A war now in Palestinian to defeat Hamas. There are numerous other conflict and abuse of children in many countries. You speak only of Palestinian women and children.

Ask Hamas why they sacrifice their women and children. Ask Hamas why they hide behind them, in buildings with them. Fire missiles from the ho.es they live in.

Israel has been breaking international
Law and committing war crimes for years

I am not sure why they cam get away with it but they are certainty not blameless there are hundreds of documentaries you can watch about the occupation as well as the idfs actions

Others blindly believe the terrorists 🙄

Firstly, you're using the "You're Biased!" Fallacy. Bias doesn't necessarily mean someone or organisation is wrong, you know. 🤦‍♂️

Secondly, if you'd read the ABC link it does state its still being worked out. So, we're reading current thinking from weapons experts. But ABC's experts have raised some very valid points.

At the end of the day, we've got from a near total condemnation of Israel based on Hamas' own claims to....this. 🤷‍♂️

@FebruaryOnMyMind You do know this thread is about the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Hence the mentioning of Palestinian women and children

Unlike yourself, there are others who have a moral compass and do not believe in the collective punishment of a whole population based on the crimes of their government

@FebruaryOnMyMind i am sorry but i do not believe the us or the israeli are really able
To convince anyone

is a bit like we investigate ourselves and clear ourselves from
Any wrongdoing

An indepented investigation cannot happen now so we do not know what to believe

Also is not like the IDF did not lie before then admitted their "error"

... yet others expect the lot of us to believe the Israeli government that they are "the only democracy in the Middle East" that commands "the most moral army on the world" ...

... all the while they will NOT stop dropping bombs on civilians in SOUTHERN(!!!) Gaza ... in Rafah! In Khan Younis! The very places that, just two days ago, their spokespeople went on TV to claim "oh, but: we are the good guys, we warn civilians! We told them to evacuate to safe areas ... are we not GOOD, though? Are we not JUST?!"

Israel is (or was, ... AFTER it took them A LOT more days to reach agreement on a "war governmnent" than it did to start dropping bombs!!!) currently being governed by the most right-wing government it has ever seen!

But: we are supposed to "stand in solidarity" with them? I guess?

I cannot believe I AM LITERALLY saying this but: I sort of miss Ariel Sharon! You know, the guy who sort of personally started the 2nd Intifada and went by the byline "Butcher of Beirut" ... he seems ... in hindsight, kind of reasonable in comparison to an Israeli government that includes people like Gvir!!!

CEASEFIRE NOW!!!

It's relevant because it's happening now but of course the world chooses to turn away where Africans are concerned.

I can't believe they are bombing southern Gaza. The way they pretended like they were trying to prevent civilian deaths when in fact they were targeting them. That is so disgusting and evil. Just the thought of all those kids, elderly and disabled being rushed to the south. People panicking and not being able to take anything but their clothes with them. Thinking they are getting to safety only to be bombed. I'm not defending Hamas but they were right when they were blocking Palestinians going to the south.

That’s not even what the link says?

Anyone excusing Hamas are absolute evil. Absolute.

Did my words you quoted state so? 🤦‍♂️

And I mentioned that in my other post upthread too....🤷‍♂️

Not everything has to be a named fallacy, although as the one you mentioned doesn't exist, I guess you may be alluding to the bias fallacy, which doesn't fit here.

Valid points have been raised by various experts to say it was Hamas, and the same has been done to say it was Israel. I thought you would have waited for conclusive proof, as you were very quick to say to me yesterday.

There was a very balanced piece on this on The Briefing Room on Radio 4 this evening which may be available on BBC sounds. There appears to be a broad consensus that the evidence points to a Hamas rocket, that the death toll was significantly exaggerated and that the media including the BBC are culpable for blindly jumping on the blame Israel bandwagon with no evidence to back it up leading to a detrimental effect on a diplomatic effort.

Definitely, I'm glad I haven't heard any sympathy for them so far, it would definitely change my opinion of a person in a heartbeat.

Not really. The link to ABC news provided by February doesn’t say US experts think it might be Hamas despite what February wrote in the post when they pasted the link. Hamas isn’t even a contender. ABC News stated
”National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson said the U.S. based its preliminary assessment on "overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information."
"Intelligence indicates that some Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip believed that the explosion was likely caused by an errant rocket or missile launch carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad," Watson said, adding that the U.S. is still working "to corroborate whether it was a failed PIJ rocket."

PIJ is not Hamas.