Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

It'll be worse because this will be much closer to actual combat that aerial strikes. It'll be messy, ugly and difficult.

Especially given Hamas knowledge of Gaza is better than the Israeli Defence Force personnel's. Hence, aerial strikes.

Then there's Hamas’s use of human shields.

It will be a slow affair too - IEDs and various other booby traps will have been laid by now, so the delay in the ground incursion also gave Hamas more time to plant these. That includes in civilian homes - remember, Hamas' members and followers believe they will follow the path of Allah in being killed in this way.

Anyway, I had a post on this somewhere too.

War brings out the worst in everyone.

When this all started, I messaged my friend in Israel, showing concern for him, and he responded with sadness and fear. Of course I sympathised with him.

He has just posted on instagram a picture of a flattened Palestinian building surrounded by dead bodies. The slogan ‘free Palestine’ has been crossed out and instead is written ‘free parking spaces’. A ‘joke’ I guess. Below this he wrote ‘Palestinians are psychopathic scum’. Not Hamas, he wrote that all Palestinians were like this.

Obviously he is in a terrifying position right now. But I would never have thought he would post a photograph like that. I imagine both ‘sides’ are at it now. It is all so depressing.

Wish I'd never looked at the photo of those babies now. Just lying there all innocent. Really choked me up that has. Just so so sad, all round.

I would actually happen to agree!

But, unfortunately for me, Rishi Sunak does not, and has offered "absolute support" for one particular sort of murdering bastards, supposedly in my name - while, essentially, employing wording that boils down to "oh, but if you happen to off some of them pesky civilians that stand in between you and your goal: rest assured that we know you did not really mean in, so thats okay!"

Hamas have committed an unspeakable atrocity (and I AM going to repeat it - although I do not have to, because my PM has already spoken, in my name!). But what the ultra-far-right Israeli government is doing - all while claiming "ah, but we are the good guys, you see, when WE do it, at worst you can call it collateral damage": THAT I am going to going to have to loudly take a stance against - again: because Rishi has claimed I support this. I DO NOT!

The reports I have seen show experts stating the evidence is inconclusive. I haven’t seen any report concluding it was definitely a Hamas rocket. Can you link to where you saw this?

Thank you. The sad fact is that these children, other Palestinian children and mothers won’t make the front page of the daily mail. We’ll never know about the grandmothers and Harry Potter fans in Gaza whose lives were wiped off the map because they aren’t humanized and their stories aren’t given the time or focus they deserve by the media. They are purely reported as statistics.

the stories of the victims of Hamas are devastating. They didn’t deserve to be brutally murdered. But neither do these Palestinians. So remember them when you express your outrage because unfortunately for every Israeli victim of the Hamas attack there are 4 Palestinian victims. Each and every one of them had lives and hopes and likes and dislikes and people that loved them. They also matter and their numbers are growing by the day.

@Hellusional
Thats awful. What is it about we humans that turns us so hateful?

Yes, I agree with you. I really do. Think that image really made me think.

The child death toll is something like 1,000 Palestinian children to 50 Israeli children (I’m sure it’s higher now, as a child dies every 15 minutes).

Horrific violence and yes these are all innocent lives cut short.

Thats awful and sad. It does bring the worst out of all sides. Many of us fighting with each other on here under different circumstances would probably be having a friendly conversation. As this war escalates day by day the possibility of a peace solution seems far far away

To whomever asked

https://abcnews.go.com/International/us-initial-independent-review-shows-evidence-bomb-strike/story?id=104126146

The US experts believe it was a Hamas misfired missile.

Why can we not just - at least here! at the very least "where we can control it" - STOP this shit?

The point is NOT "but we have more dead!"

The FUCKING point is "every single death - particularly of a child, but: civilian adults deserve our advocacy and compassion, too! - is one death too many!"

For ... what exactly!?

I stand with NEITHER the child-killing, party-goer abducting Hamas, nor do I stand with the ultra-far-right, expansionist current Israeli government that is pretending "just collateral damage, sorry, we did not mean to" - while getting its ally to, literally!, veto a UN resolution that had been so watered down that it did not even dare ask for what is needed and right - merely "humanitarian pauses"!

CEASEFIRE NOW!!!

I am going to pull a "reverse Cato the elder" here and, until it happens, will end every single post I make on here or elsewhere with what we need!

CEASEFIRE NOW!!!

I've been thinking this too, there are some posters with the exact opposite views to me, and I think they'd probably be quite interesting to hear from if it wasn't this topic being discussed (Edit: not insinuating they aren't interesting, that could come across badly - as in, discussion of this topic would simply likely lead to disagreement and not a lot of friendly conversation), a lot of the regular posters don't come across negatively to me either. You obviously get the odd goady person now and then, but those tend to be a brand new username that soon gets deleted for being a PBP.

What are you talking about? I'm pro-Israel. And if someone on the pro Israel side is taking the word of Ibizafun's cousins DD about anything then I'll criticise them for it just as I would when the pro-Palestinians do similar. Although I largely stay out of the day to day fog of war accusations on either side.

Agree @HeidiInTheBigCity I'm not religious but I pray for every single life that is caught up in this conflict. It makes you realise how lucky your 'normal' life is.

Another thing I find quite scary about your post though is that as you say your friend wouldn't normally post such content. Laughing at dead Palestinians and calling them 'psychopathic scum’
So if that's just a normal civilian what will be the mindset of those IDF soldiers who are about to invade Gaza? Who are trained to kill. Who many must view all palestinians as either Hamas or Hamas sympathisers. Which is why the thought of a ground invasion is actually making me feel physically sick

What can we do? I can’t get my head around the fact our prime minister was shaking hands and pledging support to a government that has killed 100s of children over the last few days. There has to be another way of stopping Hamas terrorists. Where does the humanity go? What can we do to stop this? Does anyone have any idea? Why is the aid not flowing through? Why are we not screening Palestinians and evacuating them? Why is there no humanitarian response to what we’re seeing? Is it really because they’re Muslim and so don’t matter? Is it because their skin is a different colour? They speak a different language? What can we do???

Are we going to stand by and watch more and more footage of dead children, read about Palestinian women being raped, tortured, men being humiliated and murdered in front of their families? And we’re going to watch it with passive nods. No one around me is talking about this. No one is horrified. I can’t stop thinking about the children and how complicit we’re being in their torture.

Agree. This whole conflict has made me realise how privileged I am. How privileged my children are.

I am really pleased at Sunak's support for Israel. I hope all those who rushed to blame israel for the hospital have now apologised and realised it was yet another murder of babies by the Hamas terrorists.

Definitely and I'm sorry I had a go last night. X

It's ok. I'm sorry if my response to you was rude aswell

People are full of hate. I am sure fighters on both sides will have hate-filled ‘pep talks’ to give them an aggressive boost. I guess it takes away the fear and compassion before going into battle.

Yes. I felt guilty ordering a pizza with my daughter tonight. It felt like a ridiculously frivolous thing to do.

True
All which will lead to further loss of life on both sides. I really wish our PM would have kept a humanitarian stance and pushed for a ceasefire. Rather than further war mongering.

? Your link states
National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson said the U.S. based its preliminary assessment on "overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information."
"Intelligence indicates that some Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip believed that the explosion was likely caused by an errant rocket or missile launch carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad," Watson said, adding that the U.S. is still working "to corroborate whether it was a failed PIJ rocket."

So nothing definitive.