Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Correction, they treat Israeli women and children right. Palestinian children are sub-human to them. Fair game to imprison, carpet bomb and have their heads literally blown off or trapped under the apartment buildings that collapse on them by missile strike as they sleep.

before the current genocide in Gaza started, this year alone Israeli forces killed 38 Palestinian children by September in the West Bank where there is NO HAMAS to blame for using them as human shields which is the excuse Israel always uses to justify its murder of Palestinian civilians.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank

https://www.unicef.org/mena/press-releases/covid-19-crisis-un-release-children-detention-Palestinian

Absolutely- but for these things to happen Israel needs to not been under threat. Hamas and similar organisations need to be gone. There needs to be a commitment to compromise from all sides (including the wider world).

But this first step is really going to have to be a commitment to the necessity for the nation of Israel.

Of course everyone should have freedom. Everyone should be able to live a peaceful life.

The Middle East is a shit show. But as I can tell you understand from your previous posts people aren’t always willing to compromise.

And I think the man is right! Unfortunately there is a cycle of fear breeding hatred breeding fear. Israel feels under threat and given the history of persecution against the Jews there is bound to be a more extreme reaction to any threats. I’m sure you will agree That to be peace there needs to be a recognition of the unique position that Israel has in the world and to humanities shame a place which is still needed. Phrases like “Zionist enemy” need obliterating. There has to be a commitment to peace and cooperation on both sides.

I agree that there has to be a commitment to peace and co-operation on both sides

But I don't agree that Israel has a right to an extreme reaction like the war crimes it is committing now and nor can it ever be justified. The Israeli government need to abide by international law if they continue to want to be seen as the only 'democracy' in the middle east. Right now they are actively perpetrating collective punishment on a oppressed people. And the world is watching

There have been mistakes on both sides. But to move forward we need to move past this blame gain - even if we say it’s not an excuse there must be some understanding of why whether you agree with it or not. Being tied up with the wrongs mean last it’s unlikely to result in a way forward.

The almost unbridled antisemitism needs to stop.

Then we can move forward

Sky news reporting that the ground invasion may be starting soon

Israeli defence minister tells troops: 'You will soon see Gaza from inside'Israel's defence minister Yoav Gallant has told troops at the Gaza border they will soon see Gaza "from the inside", his office has said, in what appears to be a suggestion the ground offensive is nearing

I feel sick. If the continuous bombardment wasn't enough of a horrorshow what nightmares will be unleashed now

Watching the BBC news they found a woman, bound in metal, naked murdered and dumped by Hamas.
A girl and her grandmother were kidnapped and their bodies now found.
A young British man kidnapped and now found dead.
The hostages are gradually turning up .
Hamas need wiping out.

Murdering scum.

They need to seal the tunnels with concrete, let them rot down there.

The young Harry Potter fan girl and her grandmother being forced out of their home, was awful. Just to be murdered.

What did Hamas hope to achieve by taking a grandmother and her granddaughter?

They want to wipe out Jewish people and that can never be allowed to happen. Hamas use their people and don't care for Palestinian people at all. The leaders aren't even in Gaza they use the radical youth to fight their ends.

I agree

So Biden and Sunak basically just gave them the green light. I've had to avoid social media a bit after seeing a video of a young Gazan girl crying in sheer panic about where she is meant to go to avoid being killed. It's horrible and I'm disgusted, genuinely, that it seems to be going ahead with no intervention.

They aren't men either, they are cowards.

It's not only Israel that says they didn't bomb the hospital. Military experts gave examined the damage and where missiles came from, angles, etc and also stated it was a hamas missile.

I'm surprised if they do go in at this stage. It's clearly more dangerous than dropping bombs from afar. I hope this will mean less airstrikes, since they won't want to bomb their own soldiers. Frankly, I don't know if the ground incursion will be better or worse than what we have seen.

BBC Verify is trying to unravel what is and isn't known - looking at video footage, still imagery and other evidence, including eyewitness accounts. In addition, a BBC journalist has been to the blast site, where there is limited access.

Just to combat misinformation on the hospital attack, as nothing is known for sure at the moment.

As you often say to others ....learn to read.
I said that some wouldn't believe even if they saw with their own eyes! Some appear to hate Israel for what they don't do as much as what they do do. Ergo, they just hate Israel no matter what.

Hamas will be hiding behind women and children waiting. Any deaths will of course be nothing to do with Hamas.

It's a shame the middle east can't come up with any suggestions to help.

So given we’re humanizing and giving faces to the victims of Hamas, I’ll just leave this here. Newborn quads killed, along with 15 members of their family, by Israeli carpet bombing. The term murdering scum also applies to the Israeli soldiers that killed them.

Their names were khaled, Abdul, Mahmoud and Maha.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CylgaNFOp3h/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That is barbaric. Beyond barbaric. I saw a photo of a Palestinian mother holding her dead child, distraught, on Facebook on an official channel, and I had no words then. The comments on the photo were vile too, really, really vile.

I don't know why there always has to be one upmanship.Anybody, who's killing innocent people are murdering scum.

I agree everyone responsible for all of these civilian deaths, regardless of 'side' had blood on their hands and are 100% murdering scum.

Although there was a lot of discussion of specific victims upthread, this poster has done the same.

Hamas did say that they’d kill the hostages unless IDF stopped bombing Gaza.
From that, it appears their intent was to use the hostages as human shields against Gaza being bombed.
IDF hasn’t stopped bombing Gaza.

So the hostages go from leverage to useless from a terrorist point of view. Hamas slaughtered children, babies, disabled, elderly, women, men- they don’t care so they aren’t going to get a sense of humanity towards their hostages.

The Israeli war council knew this as did the families of the hostages- it’s why many of the families have called for a cease fire. They knew no cease fire would inevitably mean Hamas killing the hostages.

Its what terrorists do- they kill the defenceless.

Some of the leaders were/are in Gaza as the IDF have announced killing several of them via airstrikes over the past week. Including their one female leader.