Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

No worries. Unfortunately every religion in the world both now and in the past suffers from sectarianism)Eg in the Muslim world

I have seen multiple resignations from councillors from both labour and Conservative parties, seems some people still have some consciousness

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-67149953

I have seen posters on here defend Israel saying oh they are so nice. Atleast they are giving people the chance to move to the south to the 'safe zones' its their own fault if they don't listen etc etc il give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually are unaware that Israel is bombing these proclaimed 'safe zones' where it has ordered people to go to.
Source for the below: the guardian

Time and time again we condemn Hamas. Where is the condemnation for the war crimes Israel is carrying out? How long will you bury your head in the sand and refuse to see what is happening
How long will you continue with the excuse of oh well tough, what do you expect Israel to do

Another resignation
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/us/state-department-official-resigns-israel-arms.html#:~:text=State%20Department%20Official%20Resigns%20Over,arms%20transfers%20to%20foreign%20nations.

Its a very profound interview which i would urge both sides to read

In an interview, Mr. Paul said that Israel’s cutting off of water, food, medical care and electricity to Gaza, a territory of two million people, should prompt protections in a number of longstanding federal laws intended to keep American weapons out of the hands of human rights violators. But those legal guardrails are failing, he said.

I was sent this by a friend of Israeli journalist Israel Fry who has had to flee with his family for safety for speaking out against the way IDF and their Government is treating Gaza & all Palestinians. He has done a video.

https://twitter.com/MagiOtsri/status/1714670449844478334?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714670449844478334%7Ctwgr%5Eb966992e034fc4c2612db8551f009792289026d4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.middleeasteye.net%2Fnews%2Fisrael-palestine-war-gaza-invasion-live

@WhiteHorseSpirit thank you very much for sharing that. It's so sad he had to face such bullying and harassment where he feared for his life just for speaking up. I hope he stays safe and applaud him for his bravery on speaking out despite knowing the attacks he will recieve

Thank you for your clarification.

Please forgive me but which poster are you referring to?

Of course, I think it is just as important to post voices of Israeli conscientious objectors to IDF/Israel’s government’s actions it is to post views of Palestinians who are conscientious objectors to Hamas’ actions.

Did you see the protest on the U.S. capitol as well? By a Jewish group of thousands demanding a cease fire- they wore black T-shirts saying “Jews say cease fire now” on the back and “Not in my name” on the front.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jewish-protesters-in-washington-call-for-cease-fire-in-israel-hamas-conflict_uk_6530d717e4b03b213b08ab45

Kind of funny that one - so he was fine working there when they were funnelling arms to the Saudis to murder Yemenis, but this is beyond the pale? Always interesting to see the inconsistencies/blind spots in people’s world views.

Yes you are quite right I agree. Yes I did see it and also posted about it yesterday

Was disheartened to see how many of the peaceful protesters were treated by the police

The are is not just holy to Jews and Muslims but also to Christians. I think people forget the church of holy sepulchre is there where many believe Mary's tomb resides. The Palestinian Christians and Muslims lived in harmony in these lands. In fact those muslim palestinians were bestowed the keys to the church by the Christians and to this day they open and close the doors of the church every day for the christians.

The state of Israel has also been forcibly moving Christian Palestinians off their lands and out of their homes too. The hospital that was hit was the oldest hospital in Gaza and run by the Anglican Church of Jerusalem. It is in the Christian Palestinian neighbourhood of Gaza Strip.

I have just had a look at the comments under the video and was shocked to see the amount of hate he is recieving. With lots of messages saying he is committing treason

Some of the points he mentions about how the Palestinians are treated in the west bank are horrific

Christians in the Middle East, like all non-muslims, lived as dhimmis, second class citizens, for centuries after the Islamic conquest. Islamic states like Qatar continue to treat non-muslims as second class citizens today, and for the same reasons.

To be fair, those kinds of comments would happen on any country which was at war with another.

I think people need to wrap their heads round the fact this is a war now. People act and react differEntry at times of war. It’s because the use v them distinction is at its peak, psychologically people need to be instantly able to recognise who is on what side. It’s just what happens.

all this he said, she said crap is pointless now. Neither side is going to back down now. I’m surprised there has been no sizeable land assault by the Israelis yet but this is a good sign.

what needs to happen is peace. At the moment all this storing up of hatred on SM is really not helping. No one new is going “oh poor Gaza” no one new is going terrible evil Israel.

People need to understand the past to work out the future. All the past not just post WW2.

in this the only non- negotiable is that Israel needs to be a place of safety and security for Jews. Keep threatening them it’s never going to work.

All 3 religions need to accept the importance of the area to others.

Israel Fry is an amazing and brave man even if I don't always agree with him, he's an important voice in Israel. Haters are gonna hate, there's a war and the very right wing government is still in power (hopefully for not much longer).

Israel Fry is a brave man for speaking up against the atrocities, knowing it would make him a target. I hope he's safe, sad, sad state of affairs that he's now having to hide to keep himself and his family safe.

He's always spoken up.for what he thinks is right. He's been around a long time.

Would you agree that for Israel to achieve the peace it wants it needs to also hold some Accountability to some of its actions. The treatment of the Palestinians in the west bank. The lifting of the blockade of Gaza. To put an end to the settlements and hold the violent settlers to account for their actions. This would also go a long way towards a solution for peace

Yep, I'm sure it was only last year he was arrested. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to keep speaking out in his position, it's admirable that he does.

@Maatandosiris

“Justice must be done,” Biden said. “But I caution that, while you feel that rage, don’t be consumed by it. After 9/11, we were enraged in the United States. While we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes.”

I think many Israelis will agree with this. That the current way the Israeli government has acted and continues to act in this war will not achieve their goals. In fact it will create a whole new generation of people who will hate Israel and the cycle will continue