Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

@Pollyputhekettleon also you are clearly triggered by what I said. Maybe you should report my post to mumsnet if it helps you

Myself and @Maatandosiris were having a good discussion. I told her what I think would happen after she asked for my opinon on her proposed borders. She disagreed. I accept that it is a contentious issue and she has every right to disagree and have her own views. She is alot more reasonable than you

Thank you. Here is also a quick history of the conflict.

You are really painting yourself to be quite childish here

What do you mean by "You and your buddies will start WW3?"

Latest from sky news. I see more and more groups and organisations are speaking up for the Palestinian people

Hundreds of writers, including Normal People author Sally Rooney, criticise Israel and demand 'immediate ceasefire' in GazaHundreds of artists and writers, including Normal People author Sally Rooney, have signed an open letter calling for an "immediate ceasefire" in Gaza - and criticising what it calls Israel's current and previous "crimes against humanity".
In their letter, the writers state they are "speaking out to demand an end to the violence and destruction in Palestine", adding "the deliberate killing of civilians is always an atrocity".
They warn the scenes unfolding in Gaza are "a violation of international law" and "an outrage against the sanctity of human life" as they call for the "unprecedented and indiscriminate violence" to be brought to an end.

One of the posters was discussing with myself what she thinks the borders of Israel and palestine would look like. When asked about Masjidal Aqsa she said along the lines of it should be under some sort of international Authority, ie no longer under Muslim rule. As she asked for my opinion I told her that unfortunately that could lead to a greater war ie world war 3 as all Muslim countries would be against it. I did not for one second say it should lead to a war and I accepted it is a contentious issue and she is free to have her opinions.

Since then any post I make this poster has been trying to vilify me and goad me by saying I would want world war 3 to happen despite me clarifying that was not my intent
Hope that helps

No party should be in power , Palestine needs to have a government handed over to the UN or similar , away from Arabs countries that just incite hate and have interest in destabilising the Middle East so will carry on nit negotiation with Israel .

Personally I don’t care how it was created right now . They are a brilliant country , a modern country that treat children and women right . Palestine should aspire to be like them , not like Lebanon or Iran . Israel is not going anywhere . We already know the creation was controversial to say the least but it’s there and it needs to be accepted .

I agree that Marx brought the idea of religion being about power to the fore regarding external power by there are many other types of power at play. Power over self, power over events power over thoughts, power over chaos through understanding. Power could be exchanged for the words control and comprehension

Please watch the video. It cannot hurt to be more informed rather than less informed. It covers from the 19th century to the 21st century. The creation of Israel and its growth to the country it is today.

I dont think even she knows what she means at this point 😂😂😂 so childish

I think you’re referring to me here. I didn’t say you personally wanted to start WWW3. I was repeating what you said in that the Muslim world would start WWW3 if they had to share the site which is sacred to at least 3 religions if something reasonable happened and it was handed to international control.

I pointed out this lack of ability to compromise and negotiate over a building was perhaps an indication of why there was an issue in the region. You don’t appear to want to debate this fundamental point.

Great interview. The few things that stuck with me

• What is the exchange rate of Israeli to Palestinian lives today? Over the decades it’s always been multiple Palestinian lives are worth one Israeli life. The question is asked- when is enough enough? How many dead Palestinians equal the “what it takes” or full “disproportionate response” for Israel to stop?
• Second question was; this has been Israel’s approach for decades, so why do they or anything think killing far more Palestinians than Israelis will stop the cycle of conflict?
• Third question was; while the justification for killing Palestinian civilians in Gaza is due to Hamas using them as human shields, what is the justification for the killings of Palestinians in the West Bank where there is no Hamas?

@Maatandosiris I was not referring to you when I mentioned the goading. I said in a separate post that our discussion was civil and your response was reasonable and you have a right to your opinion on this

I was actually referring to @Pollyputhekettleon post of:

"Or what? You and your buddies will start WW3?"

@Maatandosiris this was my other post

That is literally the definition of a Crusade and is the most comparable situation in Christianity to Jihad. This is why I used the term Crusade!!!

Ok - sorry my mistake

Not sure about the brilliant - they give the green light to settlers to attack west bank towns at will and force people out, kill journalists at random, imprison at will, etc etc. They are a documented apartheid state. You are argue that they are established and not going anywhere and good to their people, fine, but calling it a brilliant country when they have documented apartheid, murder at will and injustices is a stretch of any imagination

No problem

They are , the current government is not but if you think quality of life they are a brilliant country great infrastructure, great rights for women and children , good education , amazing healthcare . That’s what I was comparing

At the end you also said “This is why most people in the west find it hard to understand, the last time we went through similar was nearly 1000 years ago.”

The way I read similar in your statement was that it would include wars in which religion was a motivating factor but were not official Pope declared crusades.

Come to think of it President Bush did characterise the post 9/11 Iraq war as a crusade and PM Blair sought the Pope’s approval for the U.K. to enter the war.

This article treats liberalism as a political religion, and argues that, insofar as liberal wars are fought primarily to uphold "universal" Western values, their motivation has something in common with medieval crusades. But, because that universalist ideal is vitiated by the self-interest of states, liberal wars in fact bear closer resemblance to anachronistic attempts to revive the crusading ideal in the late Middle Ages. Thus, they represent a distant, secularized echo of a pale imitation of the Crusades—or "a crusade twice removed."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24032899

Yes similar as in crusades and jihad are similar. It doesn’t matter if an American president calls something a crusade, it is not, it is a turn of phrase. I have no idea if Tony Blair spoke to the Pope or not, it is irrelevant for many reasons, Catholicism has nothing to do with the British executive or legislature (or judiciary) for that matter and for hundreds of years has been barred from interference in those areas, secondly, still not a crusade!!!

Middle East Eye, a London based independent news organisation has reported some disturbing things.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-veteran-ezra-yachin-soldiers-erase-children

The source video for the article is also on both X and FB today of one of the IDF reservists, Ezra Yachin, aged 95 that has been called up, he’s being sent round to motivate the troops.

It is definitely Ezra Yachin and he has definitely been called up as a reservist motivate IDF troops as I have seen that in mainstream media with photos of him…however, can anyone corroborate the accuracy of the translation of what he is saying?

I don’t know. I don’t speak Hebrew. If it’s fake news, it’s been up for 5 days…
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1712918166437806294?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712918166437806294%7Ctwgr%5E3dfe80881a315e69e6a77af4f11c58d94dffb7d9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.middleeasteye.net%2Fnews%2Fisrael-gaza-war-live

https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEastEye/videos/these-animals-can-no-longer-liveezra-yachin-a-95-year-old-israeli-army-reservist/1260865821243844/

Sorry, I read ““This is why most people in the west find it hard to understand, the last time we went through similar was nearly 1000 years ago.” more broadly than you intended.

Well, I wish you joy of that one.🙄

In September 1946, the British called a conference of Jewish and Arab leaders in London. When this ended in deadlock in February 1947, the Government announced it had decided to refer the problem to the United Nations

Britain was mandated by the UN to be a peacekeeping force between Arabs and Jews in (what was then called) Palestine.

We didn't want to be there anymore than they wanted us there. We were getting shot at by both sides.

In November 1947, the United Nations recommended the partition of Palestine and the establishment of separate Arab and Jewish states.
On 15 May 1948, Britain gave up her mandate. The British Army departed from Palestine leaving the Jews and the Arabs to fight it out in the war that followed. The campaign had cost around 750 British military and police lives.