Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Affirmative

I wouldn't be able to comment on that as I don't know what those borders would be

Do you by any chance have a map of your proposed borders in comparison the 1948 Israeli borders

Yes I think it must be the wine.

@Maatandosiris but before you do I would just say if your proposed borders were to include Masjidul Aqsa in the Israeli side then it would be naive for you to think any Palestinian or Muslim would ever accept that
No way
Never

The Egyptians aren't opening that border. That's on Egypt, not on Israel. Egypt doesn't want an influx of people from Gaza.

Remember while we try and speak out against Israel there are very angry people that are chanting 'death to France and England' and have targeted Western embassies in Jordan and multiple other countries, including UK. A worker at the Israel embassy in Beijing has been stabbed and in London (I know someone who works there but isn't even Jewish) embassy workers are too scared to go to work out of fear of harassment.

I don't play this game. You can say I have double standards all day long, call me a racist, islamophobe, whatever. I give zero shits, you can't manipulate me.

You've actually brought up another good example. "Misplaced emotion", when people are dying in the most brutal ways.
Yet I've seen posters get angry and say how it's awful to be pro-Palestine due to some of the awful things that have happened to Israeli citizens.
Emotion is to be expected when civilians are killed, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian. They are all innocent people caught up in a conflict they didn't create, and have paid the most horrifying price.

Are... you okay? I didn't call you any of those, either projecting or confusing me with another poster.
It's not manipulation, I just find it disingenuous to pick at other posters for doing something you view to be okay as long as you agree with their views. All the posts are on MN in black and white, no manipulation of any sorts. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Israel has bombed the Rafah crossing border on Egypt's side.

They wouldn't be unsure. They'd just say Hamas.

@Pollyputhekettleon Please post evidence that “MOST Palestinians support terrorist groups of one kind or another.”

If you don’t provide evidence to back that up then quite frankly Mumsnet should ban your account because writing that falsely is malicious, racist, hate speech.

You clearly hold extremist views, and are ever so defensive of a country built on this:
Quote from the below article:

In his book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006), Israeli historian Ilan Pappe argued that the violent history suffered by the Palestinian people is not only historical fact, but that it also amounts to ethnic cleaning - a crime against humanity, punishable by international law.

Pappe wrote that “the ethnic cleansing of Palestine must become rooted in our memory and consciousness as a crime against humanity and that it should be excluded from the list of alleged crimes”.

“The perpetrators here are not obscure - they are a very specific group of people: the heroes of the Jewish war of independence…”

You can read about the rape of Palestinian women and killing of children from the declassified Israeli docs yourself:
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/palestine-declassified-documents-reveal-details-of-israeli-1948-massacres-52933

Hi. I don't want to minimise anything you've said and appreciate how you must be feeling. No one should be mocking or laughing at the death/suffering of another. And what even is a Jewish baby or an Arab baby, surely you'd think we've moved on from thinking this way. It's never a victory when innocents have to pay the price.
On the other side of that, I have extended family in Gaza, and I guess its triggering hearing people talk about them as deluded and backwards and imply they're human shields. A grandmother who won't evacuate because she's too exhausted and won't leave her land, not because she's a terrorist sympathiser but because she has nowhere else to go. She has family in the UK and the UAE but has never wanted to leave her land, and yes she will be praying to her God not because she's deluded but it's all she's clinging to at the moment.
I think at times like this we just spiral into petty tribalism and lose sight of the huge loss of life. Anyway, not to derail your post or invalidate anything you've said.

Hamas meant to slap Israel, but the slap mis-fired.

Sorry went to find the maps the. Lost your post asking (this thread moves quickly) ancient lands v pre 1967 v current

'I just find it disingenuous to pick at other posters for doing something you view to be okay as long as you agree with their views.'

You accuse me of that in the same breath as playing the innocent. Spare me.

@Boredomblues I'm so sorry to hear this 😢
It truly is devastating

Egypt won't open the border without agreement from the Israeli government. They have so far refused to give that agreement.

Egypt said on Monday that Israel was not cooperating with delivery of aid into Gaza and evacuations of foreign passport holders via the only entry it does not wholly control, leaving hundreds of tonnes of supplies stuck.

"There is an urgent need to alleviate the suffering of Palestinian civilians in Gaza," Egypt's Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry told reporters, adding that talks with Israel had not been fruitful.

From Reuters, yesterday.

Playing the innocent? Okay dokey, I think I'm going to leave you to it, don't see this being a productive use of time.

Seems like biden's persuaded Egypt to open their border and send in some aid. Israel has agreed provided aid isn't delivered to Hamas.

So.... Biden is there... Bumbling and mumbling along trying to get that border open trying to have a dialogue with mother regional leaders.. He's pledged 100 million dollars of aid.

Where are the other big hitters of rhe region? Who else is talking to ejgpt about that crossing? What aid is quatar etc giving? Iran is something riled up where are they? We're are their aid trucks..

The Jews were there 100s of years before. If this is how you truly feel why don't you speak up against the same in Africa? How Europeans and Arabs have taken land from Africans etc ..... British in Australia ......

@Maatandosiris sorry I couldn't fully understand the maps that you sent
To make it easier would you be able to mark your proposed borders on here

My relative is driving an aid truck at the Egyptian border and he says this is all false new for propaganda as they haven't really allowed sending the aid into Gaza yet. They've been waiting there for 5 days.