Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

@OhHelloTheres I share your sentiments on losing faith in humanity and I hope and pray you are doing OK.
We may be on opposite sides in this instance but we are united by our wish to see peace and the end to bloodshed

Oh and by the way. Israel just bombed the Nuseirat Mosque in Gaza, killing displaced people seeking shelter.

According to Article 8 of the Geneva Convention, direct attacks against buildings of worship are a war crime.

But international law doesn't apply here.

I’m pro Israel, I understand the need for Israel.

Some of the actions on both sides haven’t been right.

But we can go back thousands of years they did this and those did that.

It is undoubtably that in the history of humanity Jews have been the most persecuted people.

We need to find a way forward. That is not going to happen when terrorists are in the mix.it’s not going to happen when people want to wipe out Israel.

All you seem intent on doing is demonising Israel, you are storing up hatred. Both sides have wrong doings.

The important thing is is how are we to move forward? How do you think the situation should move forward?

Someone else can address other points as I've no more time tonight.

But white phosphorus.

There is no independent verification of this and UN haven't stated so either. HRW are not the relevant independent authority on it.

You're spamming the thread to distract attention from the misinformation you spread. If you can't cope with taking responsibility, fine. Go have a cup of tea and a lie down instead.

@Maatandosiris you said that the borders should be established according to where they are currently. So I asked you if by that you also meant to include the illegal settlements? I don't understand why you were offended by that as that was not my intention

Ps Israel are also currently raining down bombs onto another hospital, Al Quds.

The false information saying the IDF were definitely not to blame was on another thread much earlier in the day. As was the "this thread needs to be deleted" x 1000 posts, coming mostly from the same person at regular intervals.

To be honest, that's not solid proof. Just because the spokesman says we don't use white Phosphorus doesn't mean it's true. The videos of the white Phosphorus bombs in Gaza are out there and they have different attributes than the normal ones.

100% this. As for the audio recording that’s been published, well words fail me, the accents aren’t even correct, they expect us to believe it !

They bombed 22 hospitals in 9 days including this same one, Al Ahli hospital, 3 day earlier. They bragged about bombing hospitals, they dropped leaflets on this very hospital before bombing it and they took credit for this bombing on twitter before deleting it.

Who have I demonised?

People really do believe anything….the accents are all wrong, funny how it took so long to release this.

up this audio

@Maatandosiris and I'm sure you can understand why I asked you to clarify your position
We both want peace in the region but the illegal settlements are a huge hindrance to the two state solution

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64620734.amp

Yep

In a now deleted tweet by Hananya Naftali, Israel first took credit for bombing the Baptist Hospital. Once they saw how many civilians it killed, he deleted this tweet and blamed the attack on Hamas and said Hamas bombed the hospital themselves. 500 people were murdered.

Think its a bit rich calling people dim witted and believing everything. The same pack of posters are on here from last night insisting Israel was responsible for the bombing. Lo and behold, back they are tonight - with the spamming. More misinformation, selective copy and pasting and oodles of misplaced emotion.

Going by some posters on this thread, I swear Israel could slap you across the face, leave the word ‘Israel’ marked on your cheek, have video evidence of the slap, extensive history of slapping you, and some of you would still be unsure who slapped you.

I would be very cautious to claim any party is in the right here, this is a time of high emotions and anger on all sides.

Remember while we try and speak out against Israel there are very angry people that are chanting 'death to France and England' and have targeted Western embassies in Jordan and multiple other countries, including UK. A worker at the Israel embassy in Beijing has been stabbed and in London (I know someone who works there but isn't even Jewish) embassy workers are too scared to go to work out of fear of harassment.

Imagine working for Shell/insert other disliked company and you have angry protesters outside waiting for their chance to scream at you and harass you while you are only there for a paycheck to support your family. It's inhumane.

I'd like to urge you all to sit back and revisit everything that's happening right now. this is a conflict based on mutual hatred that has lasted very long and is most certainly not black and white and a lot more nuanced than it seems. this is the time to worry about the impact it will have on us.

I was walking in the City yesterday and saw armed police patrolling the area for the first time in years ! The UK does not feel safe right now and I urge you all to be mindful that all of the well-meaning support feeds onto social media and creates echochambers of more anger and fuels hatred, including hatred against us.

We need to stop dehumanizing Israel, there are after all over a million Arabs living there, they are not just Jewish people. We should criticize their government not the entire country.
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Who said o was offended? I’m not sure why you kept to that conclusion.

maybe the better statement would be to use the ancient kingdoms (apologies I thought I’d mentioned it upthread) The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah form the New Israel the kingdom of the Philistines marks out Gaza which will (eventually be an independent self governing state)

what would your view on that be? It sets out borders based on ancient established lines, almost a reset!

Was the hospital levelled Bookshipper? Where's that apology for spreading misinformation, or are you just going to keep spamming and shrieking?

Maybe they could apologise once the posters who spread misinformation absolving the IDF do so too? Especially after their big to-do about how awful misinformation is... I won't say double standards but...
I've always erred on the side of caution giving only opinions at most until news is confirmed, but let's not pick on just one set of posters here.

We're talking about almost 1000 humans (injured people, medical workers, babies...) who lost their lives here, so can we at least have some respect?
The evidence so far is the tweet that Israeli spokesman posted admitting to bombing the hospital then backpedalling when they saw the numbers to avoid being held accountable. The audio they fabricated for Hamas to accuse them is almost laughable if the situation wasn't so heartbreaking. The accents are completely off. But If Israel, despite all their war crimes, says it didn't commit it then that's enough proof?

Do these threads get more and fraught the deeper we get into wine o'clock or something?