To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

This will not end well. I just hope the whole world doesn’t get dragged into it but I think it will. The Americans have vested interests in wars and we will all follow their lead.

I sadly agree. And also wonder if PPs conspiracy theorist neighbour has a point...

I think they wanted to scotch Israels new relationships with Saudi Arabia and take a few hostages to negotiate prisoner releases.

Instead they killed a load of people at a festival making a lot of pro Palestine people rethink and got Israel to launch a full scale war.

Agree

Hamas knew exactly what response Israel would take. They want war - Jihad - and don't care one iota about the lives of ordinary Palestinian people. Can't believe there's already daft conspiracy theories that are victim blaming Israel for Hamas's appalling terrorism. Give your heads a wobble.

That was one of my 1st thoughts too.
Israel look ridiculous for letting it happen so it being a deliberate act actually makes sense. It’s a death sentence for Jewish hostages regardless of what Israel do or don’t do.

Hamas are happy to let the whole population of Gaza be obliterated if it means they get to kill Jews.
The Arab world could arrange safe passage of civilians with UN oversight but they wont, they don’t care.

@AnnaMagnani agreed - I think that was a worry for Palestinians.

The conspiracy theories don’t surprise me though 🙄

By killing the Palestinians and forcing them out to neighbouring Muslim countries, Israel will have achieved its purpose- to have the entire country to itself. The Israeli ambassador was baying for blood on last nights Channel 4 news. The whole thing stinks to high even and they're now going to use to 'poor Israel' rhetoric to get their way. Hmmm...

Today UN asking for safe corridor for medical aid to Gaza hospital.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/10/israel-hamas-war-live-appeals-for-safe-corridor-gaza-toll-goes-past-700

Also on BBC Radio this morning many people in Gaza just waiting in their homes hoping a rocket won’t land on them. I mean where do they go?

I’m not sure I agree with the conspiracy theorist. Although I get their point. I believe this was a genuine failure of security.

Hamas don’t care about anything but jihad. They don’t care about the people of Gaza in the slightest. What is terrifying is the radicalisation of young men to not care about their own lives or anyone in it, for the cause.

I guess I’m trying to rationalise outside a jihadi mindset. Perhaps that’s where I’ve got it wrong.

Yeah, Israel are just rubbing their hands with glee knowing that 1000 of them just got murdered.

What - like we did with the Holocaust?

Take a look at yourself and your heinous views. You're siding with terrorists who murder and rape and then broadcast it to the world.

So Hamas who started it, were in on it with Israel?

Apt username.

I suspect that Hamas were really more interested in preventing any peaceful settlement or movement towards it. They do not represent Palestinians or Muslims - they are terrorists, and terrorists do not require logical or good reasons to do what they do. They have been hiding behind ordinary Palestinian people for a long time, so why should they care if their shield includes Israelis? I do not always like Israeli policy either, but I do wonder what apologists for the entirely unprovoked mass assault and murder of Israeli citizens expected the country to do. Or what their attitude would be if a foreign power attacked the UK, bombing and murdering. I can't help but compare how so many people think Israel should just accept the threat of Hamas to the almost universal outcry at the mere thought of allowing one Muslim woman to return to the UK because she is percieved to be a huge threat to us.

Wars never have good reason, really. And they never "end well". But of course all the wars that we conduct are for the greater good, and so it is fine for us to deplore what others do to defend themselves. I do not want to see innocent Palestinians suffer either, nor do I want to see people killed. But be clear - Hamas want to see every Jew driven from Israel, and they will be fine if that means killing every single one of them.

I don't know what the solution is, and I don't know how or when this will end. But this is infinitely more complex than "a bit of peace-keeping", and if we have learned nothing from even recent history, it is that when terrorists achieve their goal, then they don't stop, they move on to their next targets. Isn't that why we set out to destroy ISIS? And we had little regard for the civilians killed in our attacks on them. The West is not in a position to tell Israel it should do any less than they did themselves. It's not what any of us would wish for, but stones don't do well when you have a glass house.

Hamas knew exactly what response Israel would take. They want war - Jihad - and don't care one iota about the lives of ordinary Palestinian people.

This a 100 times over. As a western woman I still can't get my head around it. They knew how the Israeli government would respond and the western world.

I was always sympathetic of the Palestinianian plight and have always felt very supportive. But NOW, seeing some of them celebrating in London and Birmingham and watching the awful videos of those poor young people just enjoying a festival and being slaughtered. And families being taken away by Hamas. It's all too horrendous.

I feel disgusted and my sympathy has gone. And I understand I'm being manipulated by Hamas but doesn't get those terrible events out my mind.

That poor woman and her red headed twins.

So many innocent casualties on both sides, and wonder how long before we end up sending our young people to another war?

Within 12 months I reckon. Then BOOM off we go again. :(

This is a really, really disgusting take. Israel have had its civilian citizens slaughtered in cold blood then raped, murdered and paraded naked through streets. The elderly and children have been murdered and taken captive with no mercy. Exactly how do you think this stinks?

Netanyahu is probably massively fucked, he has many internal political problems and this attack reveals terrible security and intel - aren't Israeli secret service supposed to be all-knowing?

I'm sure he is saying he'll go in hard on Hamas, not hard to understand why given what they just did - it might also be the only way to save his skin politically.

The only thing that anyone should be saying right now is 'this is horrific'.

I'm appalled by the level of victim blaming on some of these threads.

'Looking for an excuse'? Wtf???

Just imagine being a family member of a young person who had been murdered at a festival during a Jewish holiday, and then reading this thread, with over 75% of people thinking Isreal asked for this!

No one deserves to die. Conspiracy theorists getting off on this makes my blood run cold.

You think Israel actually wanted many hundreds of their own civilians slaughtered?
Jesus.
I often think some of these thread contain barely concealed anti-semitism.

I think Hamas are adopting the Machiavellian view, that there's no avoiding war, just delaying it to the advantage of your enemy. They will only get weaker by delaying - Israel is better equipped and has much better intelligence (services). Purely from a strategic point of view there's nothing much to be gained in delaying their assault. Israel would just consolidate their position and make Hamas weaker. I think Hamas would rather go down fighting, the obliteration of their people being largely irrelevant to them because they see it as a question of when they'd be obliterated, not if they would be.

For the most part outside observers of any conflict see one side as more guilty or innocent than the other. They can't understand why the guilty/guiltier side does what they do when it is "obviously" wrong to anyone whose main concern is the preservation of life. Hamas, like Putin in Ukraine, doesn't really care about the preservation of life. And once you're comfortable with the idea of many casualties the game of war can begin in earnest.

I read a post elsewhere this morning (different site altogether) asking something along the lines of "when will humans learn to live in peace?" Based on the evidence of the past hundred thousand years it'll be a while yet.