To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed.

I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite.

I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

Are you 'asking for a friend'?

None of them know.while they are calling us as having dark souls and lacking in empathy, they have no idea what direction they would take.

Its easy to criticise from your armchair.

Its easy to criticise from your armchair.

Always

Especially without any where near the same threat

I have absolutely no idea what I would do if n terms of military tactics and don’t claim to. Are you saying that if a person doesn’t have a military strategy to defeat a terrorist group they shouldn’t question the murder of 4500 civilians?

What would you do if you were a Palestinian civilian? Do you have a logical answer to that question? Of course not.

No I am not saying that. I am saying in the absence of fact, you cannot judge tactics.

@Wonkasworld I came across this article which has a much better solution and approach to the war than Israel is currently taking
What are your thoughts?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/how-israel-can-win-hamas?utm_source=twitter_posts&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_daily_soc

more fool you then..

What facts am I absent of? What would I need to know to think that a tactic which kills 4500 civilians is justified?

Perhaps to recognise that the intention of the tactic was not to kill civilians? Unlike the intention of the opposing forces?

@Wonkasworld it includes taking a more targeted approach towards Hamas
aswell as allowing in sufficient food water medical supplies etc
Allowing Humanatarian passages for those who wish to leave
To not bomb hospitals in the North aswell as its own Safe places.
From reading the news and following updates from the IDF on how many Hamas combatants have been killed so far in Gaza it doesn't seem to be a significant amount, I don't think more than a 100
So at what point will Israel say hold on a second, our strategy of not targeting civilians is not really working
We have reached 5000 civilians give or take so at what number will the strategy be revised? It seems that so far 5000 civilians is an accepted number of collateral damage. So when does it become too much? Or are all palestinians in Gaza acceptable targets aslong as its not intentional?
We have had some good discussion so this post is not an attack towards you in anyway

The fact that you're asking that question, renders any further discussion, futile.

What difference does intention make if you know what the result of your action will be?

If there was a rapist living in a block of flats who I planned to kill and I set fire to the whole block with all the residents still in it, does my primary motive of killing that individual justify killing everyone else? What difference does it make if my intention was to kill the rapist? I still knew everyone else was going to die because of my actions.

Thank you for addressing the question. I didn't take it as an attack against me, at all. 👍

And the fact that you think anything justifies murdering 4500 innocent people also renders the discussion…futile.

I am looking at the bigger picture and the threat that Hamas pose, funded by their allies. A threat that could, at some point, affect you.

@Wonkasworld an example of something they definitely should not be doing and I really can't see how anyone can justify it. Israel asked the people to move to safe zones and then bombed those same safe zones. How is that in any way acceptable

Reuters is carrying an interview with an 18-year-old Palestinian who claims to have lost 13 members of her family after they fled from the north of the Gaza Strip to the south – as ordered by the Israeli military – only to be caught up in the bombardment there.Dima al-Lamdani said she had had to identify the bodies of her relatives at a makeshift morgue in Khan Younis after losing her parents, seven siblings and four members of her uncle’s family. She said her family and that of her uncle travelled in two cars across Gaza.She said her family was staying at a temporary shelter when “at 4.30am I was awake and sitting with my aunt drinking coffee. Suddenly I woke up in the middle of ruins. Everyone around me was screaming, so I screamed.”“This is a nightmare. It will never be wiped from my memory,” she said. “I had a sister, 16. They wrote my name on the white sheet they wrapped her body in, they thought it was me.“They told us to evacuate your place and go to Khan Younis because it is safe. They betrayed us and bombed us.”

Please find below link to continuing thread we are at 992

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4926192-thread-2-to-think-hamas-have-given-israel-the-excuse-they-were-looking-for

I appreciate the clarity and writing of this article.

Perhaps I missed it but all detailed seemed to go for oppression. I could not see an example of a more targeted approach which worked for better results.

I also think this is happening

‘Hamas leaders may be calculating that such ultraviolent spectacles would bring further attention to their cause and mobilize support—not only among Palestinians but also among sympathizers and anti-Semitic extremists throughout the region and around the world.’

@Parkingt111 I am obviously far from an expert in warfare so how realistic that article is I don't know, but yes anything that works but minimises and protects civilian lives will be better than what we are witnessing at present.

I have no military experience to answer that but I'm hoping someone else with more knowledge can do so

Also if this was Hamas's plan all along then Israel seems to be falling into it face first, blinded by their rage
It's indiscriminate killing of civilians including over a thousand children will not be excused by anyone in the civilised world.

I do think that as long as there are backers like Iran funnelling money and weapons to Hamas or any other terrorist movement that might rise from the ashes, the conflict will continue. The Iranian leadership is extremely cavilier with lives, these clearly mean nothing when set against an ideology.

@Parkingt111 Thanks for sharing that article! It's great.

I was really excited until the "solution" bit, which I found rather disappointing... e.g. saying that Israel should create safe spaces for the Gazans to flee to. What about keeping Israel safe from Hamas supporters? It's not as though they wear big bright badges identifying themselves as such...

I can completely understand the desire and desperation to find any solution that stops the deaths of civilians though.
I just dearly wish that all involves parties could make this the urgent priority.

Does that include children? Women? The elderly
The disabled? The ill?
Are you saying there is absolutely no way that any innocent civilians from Gaza can be saved and let out?

@Alcemeg or this?