Trans People

[Lovenliving]

It is eye opening to see all the concerns that people on here and generally have around toilets and wards and sharing space with men. Even when they identify as women.

I do wonder if they see any parallels with how Black people might feel around white people. Personally, I am not worried about a man being in the toilets, I am worried that some sort of race related incident will occur while me and my loved ones are in a enclosed space without witnesses. I am worried that my stud relatives and friends who are already seen as masculine due to their Blackness will be harassed by white people while they frequent women's spaces.

I worry about how this idea that all men are an equal danger to women impacts on my Black teenage son in terms of how white women treat him in public and at work. I saw him go from Black boy to Black man and how people responded to him differently as a result. Normalising this response to men without understanding your own racial bias will increase microaggressions against Black people. White women will believe it is ok to treat Black men like dangerous predators and definitely more dangerous than men who are white. This isnt something we need more of for Black people. It kills Black men.

Honestly, in the grand scale of living as a Black mother in the UK, this trans issue is so far from my radar as things that mess up our life as a Black family in the UK. The thought that out of 100 people I might meet in a public bathroom, 1 might have been born a boy. It highlights how different at least my life is from the average white woman on Mumsnet.

Thought racism was a thing of the distant past now ? Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

Katie Dolatowski is a “genuine transwoman” didn’t stop him raping a fucking child in a supermarket toilet!

And yet the supreme court ruled otherwise.

And what about the millions of women who also want to live in peace? Without the fear or threat of male violence? Do they not matter?

I’ve never been in a toilet or changing room where I’m naked in front of other people. There’s generally a cubicle involved, I don’t know where you’re going to have a wee

You can ban all MEN from women’s only spaces.

They are men.

Luckily that’s not what our Supreme Court ruled. You absolutely can.

I’ll ask again. What is a genuine trans woman? How does one tell?

You’ve never been in a changing room that was an open room? Ever?

Can. Did.

we separate ALL men from women where there are issues of safety, dignity and fairness.

wanting a subset of men in women’s prisons, hospital wards and rape crisis centres is abhorrent

The tone deafness here is thundering.
Just bc you’ve had no negative interactions to do with this subject so far -

As in, within her life as an adult - no negative interactions with trans women so far.

Opposed to ongoing racist interactions, probably on a weekly (if not daily) level, with white women.

But you're telling her she's wrong for not sharing your white-privileged perspective? Phew. Pretty. Strong.

Statistics have shown that black women and girls are more likely to be victims of sexual violence and harassment. That risk also increases with vulnerability and/or lower socioeconomic status.The vast majority of those crimes will be committed by men. That’s why keeping men out of toilets, hospitals wards, camps, girl guides, sports , prisons, rape centres etc. should matter . At least a little bit. Allowing even more men(that have no business being there) , increases an already higher risk.

Black girls (and children in general) are also more likely to be strip searched by the police. Such an act is violent and violating enough, without having to also put up with a man doing it because his name is now PC Suzie Bear.

Actually you can. The Supreme Court judgement said that single sex spaces should be based on biological sex.

Men are responsible for most sexual and violent crime. Once you let one lovely gentle trans woman in, you let all males in - the good, the bad and the opportunists.

It’s perfectly reasonable - and actually sane - to exclude them all to keep girls and women safer.

You didn’t though because I was in a toilet at the same time as a trans woman earlier?

And I thought people could never tell?

the law has said they’re not allowed in single sex spaces. Places are indeed choosing to break the law, and we will litigate and win our rights back, brick by brick.

I’m not sure you have grasped the point people are making.

The OP thinks that there is no problem with trans women (ie men) being allowed into women’s spaces etc bc she experiences racism from white women.

What on God’s green earth has one got to do with the other?

So a man was in the women’s toilets even though by law he’s not supposed to be.

What does that tell you about him?

What's your criterion for "genuine trans"?

Yes that’s exactly what she’s saying and it’s true

Be respectful

I know she’s trans because she’s my friend. She began transitioning when she was 15, she’s been on hormones for nearly 18 years and she’s had both top surgery and bottom surgery. She’s hardly going to use the men’s toilet.

Exactly. That’s how much, if you give an inch, entitled men will take a mile. He shouldn’t have been there but he doesn’t give a shit about women and how they feel. And clearly there are women happily waving them through irrespective of the discomfort and distress it might cause to some.

Tosh Hyman, a black lesbian in America really had an awful experience recently with an abusive man adopting the name of the ex wife he beat up and adopting a feminine demeanour in the hope of contravening changing room rules. He told her that straight women would be happy to look at his dick. She’s now in an all out mission to get men, including trans-identifying ones, out of women’s spaces. When she tweeted about this on X, Boy George compared her to a man. As far as I could see, most other women, both black and white were very much supporting her.

Castrated men aren’t women. Service providers can’t describe a service as being for women and allow any men to use it.

There's loads of open plans changing rooms at gyms and swimming pools...

Sorry, Tish Hyman. Typo, apologies.