Trans People

[Lovenliving]

It is eye opening to see all the concerns that people on here and generally have around toilets and wards and sharing space with men. Even when they identify as women.

I do wonder if they see any parallels with how Black people might feel around white people. Personally, I am not worried about a man being in the toilets, I am worried that some sort of race related incident will occur while me and my loved ones are in a enclosed space without witnesses. I am worried that my stud relatives and friends who are already seen as masculine due to their Blackness will be harassed by white people while they frequent women's spaces.

I worry about how this idea that all men are an equal danger to women impacts on my Black teenage son in terms of how white women treat him in public and at work. I saw him go from Black boy to Black man and how people responded to him differently as a result. Normalising this response to men without understanding your own racial bias will increase microaggressions against Black people. White women will believe it is ok to treat Black men like dangerous predators and definitely more dangerous than men who are white. This isnt something we need more of for Black people. It kills Black men.

Honestly, in the grand scale of living as a Black mother in the UK, this trans issue is so far from my radar as things that mess up our life as a Black family in the UK. The thought that out of 100 people I might meet in a public bathroom, 1 might have been born a boy. It highlights how different at least my life is from the average white woman on Mumsnet.

That sounds awfully like: “I don’t want to talk about that, so you shouldn’t either”.

I’m not particularly bothered about some of tthe issues in the public eye. I would never be so arrogant as to order that people should stop talking about it, or take a stand against it, if it’s important to them (and society as a whole).

I don’t see how being pissed off about men entering women’s spaces, and trying to stop it - takes away from the issue of racism.

And by the OP’s own argument I could say: I am not black and racism doesn’t affect me - therefore why should I be more bothered about that than men entering women’s spaces or trying to join my DD’s sports team?

That would be quite selfish though wouldn’t it?

I feel like I have to mention that I am not black, but I read and listen a lot. I apologise if I’ve misled or offended anyone.

Who are you worried will instigate the racial violence op?

Thank you. Can I ask for more detail on how education & workplaces are racist? I agree on the others, I know less about those 2... I understand if you'd rather not.

Oh my yeah - we know it is - how could it not be when it’s embedded in a structurally racist society

hospitals of course..women have to suck up pain and black women are expected to suck up even more pain than white women - predominantly at the hands of white men

I agree on all these but don't know do much on education system...how would you say it is racist? Sorry, I understand if you'd rather not discuss further.

A male who had their meat and 2 veg removed?

Yes. Maternity care is crap anyway but I've read details of black maternity mortality rates and pain relief being refused... This must change, ASAP.

I crossed the road yesterday, I was fine. Therefore no one else needs to watch out for cars when crossing the road because I was fine.

Less likely to be employed in a good job, more likely to be employed in a low paying job.
There was an interesting snippet of news a few years ago where someone changed their name on their CV, looking for jobs to something 'English' sounding. If I remember correctly, had more replies to that than her real name.

Education, it's over it all afaik, best to google. Kids more likely to be in detention/excluded. Not represented fairly in teaching as well as what is being taught.

Black people penalised for having different time and space boundaries and ways of expressing selfs different to white counterparts in class rooms

Hair! Penalised for cultural hair styles such as dreadlocks and Afro’s

black boys seen as dangerous - more dangerous and troublemaking than white peers

having culture appropriated by white peers

home economics not reflecting cultural difference

just a few

Still a man, just a castrated one.

It's a tale as old as time. White supremacy plays out in many ways, and this "cause" has legitimised the gatekeeping of womanhood and feminism.

It starts here, but we know where it goes - feminism becomes a one-issue fight, and inter-sectional feminists become the enemy. Black women's issues become (even more) unimportant to white women, who try to tell black women that "of course" their feminism is inclusive whilst focusing on the tiny percentage of transwomen, and ignoring the much bigger and more relevant issues facing black and Asian women.

I’m interested to know…. If as a black/brown person men in women’s spaces doesn’t bother you - what is your viewpoint on white people who pretend to be black? Eg Rachel Dolezal
Or as a disabled person your perspective people who pretend to be disabled - choosing bleach in their eyes so they are blind or a limb removed so cannot walk and need a wheelchair.
To me it’s obvious those scenarios are a problem. Surely the trans issue is as well?

(Im not fwiw in anyway wishing to diminish a poc persons experience which I’ve no doubt is a daily problem and I’m deeply saddened by it)

This!

Masculinisation of black women is a massive issue but as I said above, isn’t helped by trans women using black women as their comparators to legitimise their “womanliness”. Men using black women as evidence that those men are actually women is hurting black women directly.

Add to that, very few (if any) women would be getting challenged if men hadn’t forced their way into women’s spaces and made women feel the need to defend them. If black women are being challenged, blame the men that decided to push the boundaries such that women can’t even trust their own eyes anymore. When we could largely rely on social propriety, it wasn’t an issue, and in the very rare instance of a woman being challenged, it was pretty easy to clear it up. Now we can’t believe it when someone says “actually I am a woman”. Lesbians and GNC women of all colours are getting it too. Can we please stop blaming women for the consequences of men’s actions? The TRAs caused the situation. They aren’t the friends of black women.

https://www.teachfirst.org.uk/blog/racism-uk-schools

It's not just white women who have a need for single sex spaces though is it? Think about how many young Black and Asian Muslim women would exclude themselves from sport if men were allowed on teams and in changing rooms? How many would exclude themselves from health care if they could not be assured they would be examined by a biological woman? A woman being examined by a woman does not require a chaperone. Think about that. For women of colour and of many faiths, not just Islam, this issue has the potential to compound their experiences of racism by further oppressing them because of their sex; they experience oppression on multiple levels because of the intersection of sex, religion and ethnicity.

Black and Asian women are frequently not believed in medical settings

2/3rds more likely to die in childbirth than white counterparts

I highly recommend the book ‘Against White Feminism’ to everybody on here - it’s a difficult read and does really make you look inwards, but it’s a necessary read IMO

Why are you mixing up two entirely separate matters, OP?

The only outcome this achieves is dividing us - women. Born female. Regardless of skin colour, we are women.

How is creating this kind of a thread helpful to anyone else but the misogynist trans lobby (also, for clarity, regardless of their skin colour)?

Again decentreing what OP wanted to discuss

Thank you.

Can I ask what you mean by 'different time and space boundaries'?
And 'different ways of expressing themselves'?

‘He’s extremely happy and has a lovely life’. There….corrected that for you.

Thank you

I will look up