Trans People

[Lovenliving]

It is eye opening to see all the concerns that people on here and generally have around toilets and wards and sharing space with men. Even when they identify as women.

I do wonder if they see any parallels with how Black people might feel around white people. Personally, I am not worried about a man being in the toilets, I am worried that some sort of race related incident will occur while me and my loved ones are in a enclosed space without witnesses. I am worried that my stud relatives and friends who are already seen as masculine due to their Blackness will be harassed by white people while they frequent women's spaces.

I worry about how this idea that all men are an equal danger to women impacts on my Black teenage son in terms of how white women treat him in public and at work. I saw him go from Black boy to Black man and how people responded to him differently as a result. Normalising this response to men without understanding your own racial bias will increase microaggressions against Black people. White women will believe it is ok to treat Black men like dangerous predators and definitely more dangerous than men who are white. This isnt something we need more of for Black people. It kills Black men.

Honestly, in the grand scale of living as a Black mother in the UK, this trans issue is so far from my radar as things that mess up our life as a Black family in the UK. The thought that out of 100 people I might meet in a public bathroom, 1 might have been born a boy. It highlights how different at least my life is from the average white woman on Mumsnet.

So should we let every man I. The ladies then because most of them aren’t criminals? If not, why not and what makes transwomen (same or higher offending rates as men) different?

They should never have been dismissed, and they should not be dismissed now.

How do you think feminism in UK could help black women more? I've seen FWR raise issues about maternal mortality and DV against black women,but not nearly enough as it should...

Yes it’s wearing isn’t it

exhausting

Which is what?

What are we doing?

As far as I can see, no one has denied that the fact the OP is upset that she is experiencing racism on a daily basis etc. is perfectly valid.. that’s terrible and sad that she has to deal with that.

What has it got to do with the trans issue?

Exactly.

Traditionally toilets were separate. Transwomen were only recently given the 'right' to go in the women's loos, and they should never have had it. They need unisex loos, not places in women's loos.

Why were toilets separated? Yes, SA was a concern. But also privacy.

Can no one here appreciate that many women are deeply uncomfortable about changing or going to the loo in the same space as a biological male? And that desire for privacy should be respected?

We use those crimes to curtail people’s rights to live as they wish all the time. It’s the fundamental principle of safeguarding. It’s why there is legislation in place to give women spaces which are free from men. It’s why chaperones must be offered to women undergoing intimate procedures by men. It is already recognised at law that men are a threat to women. That isn’t a new concept. The fact that some men identify a certain way doesn’t remove that threat.

Do you believe sex is a biological reality?

I can be concerned about both racism and men entering women’s spaces.

Are you only ever concerned about one problem at a time?

I would be equally concerned about men entering women’s spaces whether I was black, brown or white.

‘I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this, and that this is how you feel. How can we, as white women, do more to assist and empower black women? How can we decentre white women in our feminism? What steps can we make that would make your life easier?’

Again she is saying the racism she experiences dwarfs that and it’s a non issue for her

respect her experience

you are centring your own white privileged experiencing and decentring hers

And it's not only threat, though that is key. It's also about privacy.

Plenty of women feel innately uncomfortable about loo or changing with a biological male, surgery or no surgery

Well said.

I’m also mixed race and growing up in rural England in the 70s faced racial abuse almost daily. My experience of racism and concern about racism doesn’t make me think men can magically change into women. Trans activists have amongst their ranks horrifically racist people who liken men being denied access to women spaces and facilities to apartheid. See how aggressively they target black and brown women who dare refuse to play along with the delusion that TWAW. Trans activists are not my allies.

The title of the thread is literally “Trans People”.

No you can’t even…because you are so sunk into you centring yourself and telling others who experience oppression what to think

you need to come off this forum for black mumsnetters

Define genuine.

But I absolutely disagree that the trans issue is “centring white women”

There are black/mixed women on here disagreeing with you.

Just bc you don’t think it’s important doesn’t mean it isn’t important to most other women.

If I ever saw anyone being racist I’d challenge that too - just as I’d challenge a man entering a women’s toilet.

Why use another issue to pit white and black women against one another?

I was on a mixed sex ward. It was fine.

But you don’t give a fuck do you, because you came here immediately to shit on trans people rather than ask the OP what you could do to help in regards to the issue she has posted about?

Exactly- Linda Bellos, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, Claire Heuchan & Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie were all horribly treated.

This!

yes let’s get back to the discussion

what can whiten women do - stop going on about trans is one..

what else

Op can I just ask how you felt about Rachel Dolzeal? And then tell me how that is different to men pretending to be women?

I would hate it.

Should I force you to eat a jam and piccalilli sandwich bc I love them, even if you don’t?

I like privacy, I feel innately uncomfortable having to change in front of other adults male or female.

That's good

But these mixed wards make assault more likely. Plenty of women are not happy to take that risk, even if you are.

Can you accept other women have a right to enforce their own boundaries about their most intimate and vulnerable states?