it's not a tiny minority is it

[noddyington]

I do not know any women who have not had something bad or intimidating happen to them in their lifetime. Whether that be cat calling, followed, talked down to, pushed out of spaces, pushed over for promotion, assaulted, stalked, raped or murdered.

I do not know any women who have not changed their behaviour to try and keep themselves safe. It might be walking with keys between their fingers, getting a taxi when they'd rather walk, covering their drink when they are at a bar, not responding when a guy intimidates/heckles at them because it's safer, run or jog in groups, don't wear headphones walking late a night.........

AIBU to say that it's not a tiny minority of men is it?

Do fuck dear 👌

Great response to a male apologist

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gyj6djd0o

Just why? Male violence. @boredandgrand

The Contraceptive Pill springs to mind........

And in the '60's "Mummy's Little Helper" (Valium) was prescribed like sweeties to try and alleviate depression in housewives caused by being a Housewife.....

Dexedrine, shurely?

What kind of research would that be then? Did the researchers manage to speak to all the women in this country who have been assaulted but have not achieved any kind of justice as their attacker was not punished due to police or CPS deciding there was not sufficient evidence?

Or the thousands of women who have remained silent becuase they cannot face the ordeal of a court case, the outcome of which will probably go against them?

I don't know where the figure you quoted came from but I can confidently state the % of men who have commited violence against women is much higher.

It's insane that of the hundreds/thousands of things that have happened to myself and my friends through the years, none have been reported. Including rape.

Sadly many a true word is said in jest.

When I was younger I would have literally staked my life on the fact that most of my male friends were good, decent men who would never do anything awful to women but I have hardened my views towards men as I've got older.

I now cannot confidently say any man I know would never commit a sexual assault or take advantage of a woman under certain circumstances. And I know some genuinely lovely men. I just think there is something hardwired in them...

Yes - it is. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s male violence that is the problem.

you’ve just given a big reason why men need to take it seriously as well, rather than just denying it’s a problem. All these good guys woudl see their chances of being attacked disappear if they worked to solve the problem

No, I AM agreeing with you re: the perpetrators ( men) but it is ' other' men that take the brunt of that violence ... tbh it is only small amount of percentage points above womens' experience but I thought it would be a point worth making...especially as I have ( as a man) been on the receiving end of said violence ( twice)

God yes, it's dreadful.

I just don't understand this kind of tone-policing though.
What are you afraid of? Genuinely.
Don't we actually need to get to tipping point where we say "you know what? Too many men behave this way, or enable it, or excuse it, or defend it".
Whats the point of trying to measure how many men, or what the percentage of men is, that don't do shitty things?
So we don't upset them?
Mate, evidence seems to show that we upset an awful lot of them for merely existing!
The benefit of looking at this at the sex-class level is to understand a common factor that causes this across the sex class as a whole, while understanding that the effects of the causual factors seem to be stronger in some cases, and non-exsistant in others.
Shutting this conversation down is not helpful, even though it makes you uncomfortable.
Men do need to know how fed up we are.
We should be on a massive general strike, or blocking the streets, but we are not. We're just venting on MumsNet, amongst other women who also would like to vent and discuss.
It's not like the Government will be developing policy based on this thread!
Let women speak 😉

I don't know a single women who hasn't been at some point been touched inappropriately by a man and/or had a man who kept trying it on despite being told not interested.

I don't think this represents all men, or even the majority, but that the same men are doing this many many times. It only takes 10% of men doing this 10 times, for on average, every women to have experienced it. And I think it's much more more than 10% tbh

I'm very average looking, and have lost count of the number of times I have been touched by a man trying it on, even had one of DH's friend of a friends try it on with me and 1 other partner - he was quickly told not welcome within their group. But not every male group responds in this way, some tolerate or even encourage this treatment of women.

I think women are processing, this week.

Two high profile predators in the news. It always stirs up emotions, and so many women have trauma.

It's a natural question to ask how many men. Even if it's not really answerable.

I agree. Women are processing. Most men are not. Therein lies the problem.

There is another view of this which is that for evil to triumph all that needs to happen is the good do nothing. So the silence of the 9/10 men who are bystanders is a contributing problem.

I had forgotten about the Criminal injuries, that’s just another slap in the face isn’t it? My own award was reduced because I didn’t report it straight away. So it happened in mid-June and I reported early August when the face of my attacker flashed up on the TV as someone the police were looking for.
It reminds me of the description of how women used to be instructed to report rape in medieval times as described by Philippa Gregory :

1. Raise the hue and cry immediately. She had to make a public outcry, alerting the local community and calling for assistance.
2. Go to neighbouring townships. She was expected to tell reputable men in the surrounding community what had happened.
3. Show physical evidence. She was expected to display her injuries, torn clothing and any bloodstains. These were treated as evidence that the rape had taken place and that force had been used.
4. Report to multiple officials. She had to take her complaint to local authorities, including the reeve, the king's serjeant, the coroner and the sheriff.

Doesn’t feel like much has changed since the 13th century eh girls?

Sorry, can't debate with stupid.

Ok, let's clear a few things up. I am not a male apologist. I work with objective facts and not emotional speculation. I worked in forensic psychiatry for 20 years and ran a sex offender treatment programme. I have worked with both victims and perpetrators of violence and sexual violence. I have acted as an expert witness in many court cases. I have medicated sex offenders. I have conducted research and had multiple articles published. All that experience has given me a reasonable understanding of what makes male offenders tick and their prevalence in society.

I was much happier when a violent offender came my way rather than into custody as the forensic route is based on risk and not length of sentence. Therefore we would only discharge when the risk had reduced significantly, which in some cases was never.

I have never been a male apologist but equally I have never tarred all males with the same brush.

One only has to look at porn, its increasing violence, the numbers of men who watch it, the numbers who ask the partners for things like strangulation...

The Brand thing, applauded for being a "CockMaster" he made no secret that he planned on shagging 1000s of women....... so men boast how many women they sleep with, but what is a woman called if she does similar? See Lilly Phillips or Bonnie Blue (or any other Porn actress) for that answer....

Apparently around 50m google searches "How to drug your wife, in order to rape her" after the Pelico case.

Of course its not ALL men, trouble is, no one knows which men.....

No one has tarred ALL males with the same brush but as a sex class they pose a risk to women as a sex class.

People are rightly so thinking it is not a small minority, again that doesn't mean ALL men.

Great work for entirely missing my point 👏🏻
At no point have I said don’t talk about it, don’t do anything about it or any other combination of don’t do something.
One man doing these things is too many, there’s no discussion needed on that.
However, if you try to make change using patently false narratives such as “it’s all men” it simply makes things worse. It’s basic human nature, you tell someone something that’s bullsh1t and they’ll ignore you.

You have been aggressive in your posts to me and I have spent a significant part of my life addressing this issue. This is clearly a topic that you are passionate about so what are you going to do about it?

To be honest, I found the criminal injuries board to be pretty decent.

I was raped. I reported it to the police immediately. After many months of investigating they "lost" the key piece of evidence and so the whole case got dropped.

Initially the criminal injuries board said they wouldn't pay out because the case was dropped. I ended up writing quite an emotional letter to them (as I was in a real state at the time). They wrote back and paid me the full amount and, more importantly to me, said in their letter "we believe you were raped". After the way I'd been treated, that one line meant everything to me. Much more than the money.

You are male, aren't you?

As I said upthread. Women are processing.

Mumsnet is often a site where women help each other process, and I would say a vast amount of what needs processed is trauma experienced at the hands of men.