it's not a tiny minority is it

[noddyington]

I do not know any women who have not had something bad or intimidating happen to them in their lifetime. Whether that be cat calling, followed, talked down to, pushed out of spaces, pushed over for promotion, assaulted, stalked, raped or murdered.

I do not know any women who have not changed their behaviour to try and keep themselves safe. It might be walking with keys between their fingers, getting a taxi when they'd rather walk, covering their drink when they are at a bar, not responding when a guy intimidates/heckles at them because it's safer, run or jog in groups, don't wear headphones walking late a night.........

AIBU to say that it's not a tiny minority of men is it?

So you don't have any good men in your life?

Excellent post. Worth quoting. 👏

There aren't many on this thread thankfully, but I do get so pissed off with the apologists, when women tell their stories about their bad experiences with men..... With their 'you need to get better men in your life' type attitude that comes from a minority of posters on this type of thread. (As if it's the female victim's fault, and not the man's.) I think some of them may be men, but they can't all be. Some are just ignorant, narrow-minded, misogynistic women.

There aren't many on this thread thankfully, but I do get so pissed off with the apologists on this type of thread, when women tell their stories about their bad experiences with men..... With their 'you need to get better men in your life' type comments ... (as if it's the female victim's fault, and not the man's.) I think some of them may be men, but they can't all be. Some are just ignorant, narrow-minded, misogynistic women.

.

The problem being widespread and real is different from people on here claiming the problem is the vast majority of men. That’s not the same thing. That’s the problem in these discussions, if we as women are seen to be saying all men are rapists, abusers etc it fundamentally undermines that message, likely makes the issues worse in fact. Lumping all of one group together doesn’t help things.

We all have different experiences, I’ve never been physically assaulted in any form by a man. I’ve been wolf whistled at and objectified but I can hold my hand up and say I’ve wolf whistled at men and commented on their physique and appearance. Just because I wouldn’t do it now didn’t mean I didn’t when I was younger. I have been physically assaulted by a woman though, that doesn’t make me think all women are dangerous, it does make me cautious of certain groups though. I’m not saying I’m not cautious of certain groups of men either.

It needs to be a sensible discussion and it needs to had to make change happen.

Content warning, because this is not a nice topic:

While chemical castration has sometimes been used to treat sex offenders, there is evidence to suggest that it can backfire. If a man is driven by sadism and can't use rape as a way to hurt his victim, he will find other ways. In other words, some men who were unable to rape ended up being more violent.

What exactly defines a "good man"? No one can say a man (or woman) is "good", because no one knows what they think/say/do when no one is watching. Look at the women who have been blindsided when their husbands have been arrested for viewing child abuse images. Does anyone really think they all "knew" deep down? That these women were somehow ignoring red flags? People want to think they would know because they need to feel they have some control over these things, but we can't know. No one can say with 100% confidence that another person is "good". The most you can say is "from what I have seen".

It is staggeringly naïve for someone to say "well all the men in my life are good men". You only know what they show you. Yes it sometimes very clear when someone is "bad" but that doesn't mean everyone else is good.

Obviously not every man I've met has tried to assault me in some way or otherwise treated me badly. But even some I thought were good men weren't. I could give numerous examples but it would be an even longer post!

Absolutely - but I’m talking about my version.

They don't hate us but some maybe many of them see us as walking vaginas and that's the problem

I dont think I can take you seriously, you've just used a term which is sexist and offensive. Imagine a man using the term "woman spreading" or "womansplaining"?

Seriously?

Yes I agree. It's so hard to tell which ones are the psychos though that's the problem, they can seem very normal and then switch.

Imagine a world where men didn’t rape
imagine a world where women didn’t have to change their behaviour to accommodate male violence
imagine a world where 1 in 4 women weren’t raped by a man
imagine a world where a woman in the UK wasn’t murdered by a partner every three days

imagine that world for a minute

This doesn’t account for the many countries and cultures where VAWG is rife but single motherhood rates are low, divorce is low, men are held as the head of the household and revered above women. It doesn’t account for the fact that VaWG has been rife across the world since the beginning of recorded history. It was less than 100years ago that women were allowed to initiate divorce on the basis of cruelty, before that it was just the man’s right.

It's so absurd, isn't it?

A thread about rape, and someone complains about using the word 'manspreading'.

I haven't got very far digging into historical stats, but what I've seen was interesting.

Bearing in mind the difficulty in extrapolating data from long ago, which is considerable, the general trend suggested a long reduction in violence from around middle ages to present day.

From around 1900, the 2nd world war produced a big drop in violence (although noting that during the Blitz there was a lot of opportunist crime), with the lowest ever rates of violence in the 50s, post war. Since then, crime rose steadily, although it dropped again in 2020 due to lockdown.

As we know, though, domestic violence increased in lockdown.

Although violent crime overall has dropped, VAWG has increased again since 2020, although again, that may partly be to different legislation and increased reporting.

It's a huge and complex subject.

Imagine a man using the term "woman spreading"

Oh I don't need to imagine.Nagging, hysterical, bitchy, bridezilla, Karen, shrill, resting bitch face, ballbuster, cat lady and many many more are very much used and also very much gendered.

To be absolutely clear, I don't for a moment think all men should be medicated. But it is an interesting thought experiment to consider how quick we are to fuck with female hormones, or medicate women to subdue unwanted behaviour, and to notice how abhorrent the suggestion is seen to be in the case of men.

I don't disagree on that point at all.

I would stretch to say that it is not purely a female vs male situation though and that a lot of the men who would do these sorts of things to females would also take advantage / use power over other men (not in a sexual way but in other ways). They just genuinely do not see any issue with getting what they want at the expense of others.

I do worry that there is an element of this that is the natural human psyche, if you look at history virtually every society has been built on the strong/powerful/rich (insert other groups) taking advantage of others to some extent. Slavery, caste system, serfs, historically religion has been used in this way, modern financial system... ultimately all come down to a group thinking they can use power to get what they want at the expense of others.

It is an incredibly depressing thought..

i did make a list and I wish i hadn't as it has really made me spiral and I have been feeling a bit weepy and so sad for the young girl i was who wasn't safe at home, the young woman I was who never reported a horrible attack because she met the man who did it a club and she had been drinking, and all the other utter crap I have experienced over the years. The attack I endured when I was walking home from work did see my attacker jailed but even as an "innocent victim" I had a deeply stressful time due to the inpetitede of the CPS and the fact that two police forces did not communicate and my attacker went missing while on bail. My SARC worker said my case was one of most badly handled she had ever seen. If i was unlucky enough to be attacked again I would not report, the 3 trips to court all but broke me and I then went through 5 years of hell claiming compenstation from the Criminal Injuries Compenstaion Authortity. They initially cut my award saying that as it was the second sexual assault i had suffered the trama would be less!

absolutely this

even the nice men keep it hidden enough

It’s not just physical

emotional, financial abuse etc

it’s everywhere

Ok, fair enough, if that is what you meant, fine. Do we medicate women really quickly ? ..I wasn't aware of this. Hopefully there should be checks and balances to stop such a thing as that doesn't sound good.

So awful to read.

Are you okay? Would it be helpful to talk to someone?

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/
https://womensaid.org.uk/

Apology accepted. Do you see how judgmental it sounded, though? “Many women DO want to go to parties and pubs, travel to where they want to get to without needing a chaperone, have interesting friendships with both men and women, have a career and some independence” – the implication being, “You don’t go places without a chaperone, you’ve never had a career, you don’t have any independence.” Not to mention, “you must see that you have circumscribed your own life” – not, I don’t, because I didn’t.

Do fuck off dear. This whole thread is not batshit. Most of the replies are well-considered and uber-articulate. You are merely cherry-picking the ones you think are extreme and that suit your agenda.

If some men don't hate women, please enlighten me, how do they find it within themselves to harass us, stalk us, assault us, rape us, torture us, kill us?

Because some men do all of that, with depressing frequency, and their behaviour is such a well-worn trope that pop culture has embraced our femaleness as the victim and prey of their maleness, and has repackaged the abject horror of it all as entertainment.