To think that not believing in patriarchy is a deal breaker?

[LemurLederhosen]

I was having a little, semi-lighthearted rant in the kitchen the other day about how long it has taken for me to get the help I need to deal with some really awful perimenopausal symptoms. I’ve been off work for months and despite keeping on and on at my GP, only now have I been referred for a HRT appt. I made the age old comment “if men went through all this they’d have been treated straight away, but that’s patriarchy for you”.

DP then simultaneously eye rolled, exhaled and scoffed the word “patriarchy”. So I asked him why. He told me that clearly I’d been brainwashed by all the rubbish on social media into hating men.

I was shocked. So I said I don’t hate men, patriarchy is damaging to men and women so to eradicate it would make a better world for everyone. What are you on about? He basically implied that it’s all a load of bollocks and that I’m only now going on about it because of social media.

I was genuinely shocked. It was as if he thinks that a load of angry women on social media have invented this concept in the last decade? I reminded him that patriarchy is a deeply ingrained system of oppression and has been around for centuries. I reminded him that I specialised in women’s studies at university (he knows this!) and that my PhD in domestic abuse (he also knows this) wouldn’t have existed in the same way without patriarchy at the helm. I’ve always been passionate about equality (for all I might add) and that not only do I take raising our 2 DDs very seriously, but more so the way we raise our DS to feel free and able to express his feelings and emotions in a positive way. He has his moments for sure. But he’s 7!

I’m just genuinely shocked that after 17 years together I’ve only just worked out that he doesn’t actually believe in patriarchy. Is this a deal breaker? I suppose I’ve kept a lid on a lot of my views - mainly because I get to exercise them a lot in the work that I do so never feel the need to “go off on one” at home, unless I’m responding to a news story or something… but now not only am I not at work but I’m also perimenopausal so in full unfiltered/ unmasked mode!

All the other times he’s huffed when I’ve made similar comments I just thought was his social conditioning making him respond that way so I have challenged him and eventually he’s gone quiet… but now I know he flat out thinks its made up bullshit I mean what am I meant to do? He’s a good person, but clearly has never had his world view challenged as much as I’m challenging him now? Maybe he’s just been humouring me all these years - which make me really quite angry. I just don’t know what to think… or maybe he was trying to wind me up?! Which again isn’t good… or funny…

I'd want to find out a bit more about what he thinks. The Patriarchy is quite an academic term - does he believe that men and women are generally treated equally? What does he actually think?

I'm shocked that he has the gall to tell someone with your academic background that you picked it up 'on social media'!

The movie Women First is rather dumb but does illustrate all the “invisible” bits of patriarchy that men don’t see.

or even watch the classic 9to5

Someone’s been brainwashed by social media and it isn’t you.

I’d present him with some facts. Like how women weren’t allowed to have their own bank accounts until about 50 years ago, like how rape was legal within marriage for centuries, like gender pay gaps. Don’t argue but give him proven facts and let him consider them for a bit.

Patriarchy is becoming one of those words like Narcissist where it’s thrown about so willy -nilly it becomes exhausting having to pick apart whether it’s being used correctly before you even get to the nuts and bolts of what’s actually happening. In terms of what’s happening you’re not wrong but I don’t doubt that the eye rolling comes partly from the terminology

To be fair, I think that the NHS is simply a load of shit for both women and men, e.g. lack of prostate cancer screening

Hear him out and be prepared that he might have different opinions than you.

My husband and I don't agree on everything about why some people are more disadvantaged than others, but we are on the same page about how we can individually make a difference and that is what counts. When we can make a real action, he is 100% behind it if not leading it himself.

A lot of women don't seem to have ever touched on this before marriage, which is completely bonkers in my opinion. I know women often don't recognise patriarchy until they are a little older when it affects us with maternity care, jobs post kids etc, but I do think a lot of women from the 90/00's seem to have just been happy to go with men who seemed "nice" rather than check, as an example, if they regularly watch porn and challenge it.

I know I wouldn't be able to deal with this, the eye rolling would have me squinting at him big time. The fact he is belittling your understanding of how it has affected your life is not healthy in a relationship. You should be able to have adult discussions on things that are affecting your family. Why is he assuming you don't know how you have been treated?

I don't think it's a helpful term generally. It sounds like there is some cabal of men who secretly control everything. It's clearer to just refer to sexism.

Haha, no. There is definite sexism in the NHS.

He doesn't sound very observant, but then again - systems of sex-based discrimination are so deeply embedded in our culture (and in most human cultures) and so normalised that they really can be hard to see, let along analyse accurately. He might also be a victim of what Susan Faludi called the "ritual matricide" of feminism: where each generation buries, sidelines and/or devalues the work of academic and activist feminism to such a degree that it feels like starting over from scratch every 20 years or so.

This part, though: DP then simultaneously eye rolled, exhaled and scoffed the word “patriarchy”. So I asked him why. He told me that clearly I’d been brainwashed by all the rubbish on social media into hating men doesn't sound like a difference of opinion or divergent politics or lack of exposure or information, it seems more like he's sneering at you when in fact HE is the one who has misunderstood. It also seems a bit arse backwards for a man to just straight-up knee-jerk tell a woman she's imagining what it's like to BE a woman - how would he know? But regardless of the specific topic or who has what opinion, I'd find it irritating that he is so insistent on "being right" and shutting down discussion when he himself is apparently poorly informed on the subject.

People seem stuck on prostate cancer, which has actually had a shit-ton of funding thrown at it. It still mainly kills men over 70. Breast cancer mainly kills women in their 40's. Funding is meant to look at years lost in poor health rather than trying to stop the final nail in the coffin but strangely doesn't seem to matter as much to NHS when it is women dying.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that he has said you picked it up on social media, and very telling as to how he views your intelligence. That in itself would be a dealbreaker for me, but I’m long term single and I wouldn’t consider a relationship with someone who hadn’t unpicked their own misogyny, and the men with that level of self-awareness are few and far between.

Well that is correct, it is not some cabal of men, it is all men. They are all in on it. The vast majority (like the OP's husband) are just blatantly very dishonest about it because they enjoy subjugating us.

It's like white privilege. Ask most white people if they have such a thing and they will deny it until they are blue in the face. But we all do possess it, and only the good amongst us are honest enough to acknowledge and want to do better.

There are things only men get are there cures for all of these?

Sure leave him if you think it will make a difference

But that's the thing, many women who will argue that the patriarchy exists will also argue that white privilege doesn't exist.

Oh wow, couldn't marry a div and nonfeminist.

It’s like that phenomena whereby middle class people just an example, think the police is wonderful as an institution because they were lovely when they attended their address over a stolen bike. They seem completely unable to remove this from the police as an institution, and that other social groups, ie black men and children in care for example will have had an entirely different experience with the police. I think privilege at the core of that too, same as with these men who insist there is no misogyny or patriarchy. The status quo suits them perfectly.

I know, I've met one or two of them and I can't stand the cognitive dissonance that possesses them to think like that. If you don't believe in the patriarchy, white privilege, trans rights, freedom of movement for all and the right for Palestine to be free then you aren't a good person. It's as simple as that.

See I don't think it's as simple as that. Many people are extremely versed in the concept of various forms of inequality but when it comes to their actions in places where they have full autonomy and power, they choose not to demonstrate these qualities.

I'm about actions where it counts. Not words. I don't even really care how people vote. I don't use that to judge their character very much at all.

This is why intersectionality is vital, but many people are unable to step back and situate their own social position…Hence why some women will agree on patriarchy, but vehemently be opposed to white privilege.

Feels like this has been taken over by bots now.

Bots always want to put all "leftie" ideologies into one basket, most of us don't think that way and have issues that aren't on that list or not all of them. It is situational and empathetic.

It isn't the same mentality of the authoritarian lot, who do whatever makes them "win", no matter how you all try to spin it.

He doesn't believe the same things you do. He's told you that - every time he's huffed and puffed at one of your comments - but you've dismissed it, because you don't want to see him for who he is. Only you can decide it it's a deal breaker.

I have no idea what you do because I don't know you.

I'm just explaining my general approach to people when it comes to their socio-political perspectives. I take actions over words. There are a few people whose spoken beliefs I've found abhorrent, but through my forced interactions with them, I've found them to be of more consistent and genuine character and with more compassion than many people who have seemed to say all the right things.

Patriarchy, racism and privilege aren’t ’lefty ideologies’ 😂

They’re concepts used to describe and analyse social relationships, inequality and power.