To think that not believing in patriarchy is a deal breaker?

[LemurLederhosen]

I was having a little, semi-lighthearted rant in the kitchen the other day about how long it has taken for me to get the help I need to deal with some really awful perimenopausal symptoms. I’ve been off work for months and despite keeping on and on at my GP, only now have I been referred for a HRT appt. I made the age old comment “if men went through all this they’d have been treated straight away, but that’s patriarchy for you”.

DP then simultaneously eye rolled, exhaled and scoffed the word “patriarchy”. So I asked him why. He told me that clearly I’d been brainwashed by all the rubbish on social media into hating men.

I was shocked. So I said I don’t hate men, patriarchy is damaging to men and women so to eradicate it would make a better world for everyone. What are you on about? He basically implied that it’s all a load of bollocks and that I’m only now going on about it because of social media.

I was genuinely shocked. It was as if he thinks that a load of angry women on social media have invented this concept in the last decade? I reminded him that patriarchy is a deeply ingrained system of oppression and has been around for centuries. I reminded him that I specialised in women’s studies at university (he knows this!) and that my PhD in domestic abuse (he also knows this) wouldn’t have existed in the same way without patriarchy at the helm. I’ve always been passionate about equality (for all I might add) and that not only do I take raising our 2 DDs very seriously, but more so the way we raise our DS to feel free and able to express his feelings and emotions in a positive way. He has his moments for sure. But he’s 7!

I’m just genuinely shocked that after 17 years together I’ve only just worked out that he doesn’t actually believe in patriarchy. Is this a deal breaker? I suppose I’ve kept a lid on a lot of my views - mainly because I get to exercise them a lot in the work that I do so never feel the need to “go off on one” at home, unless I’m responding to a news story or something… but now not only am I not at work but I’m also perimenopausal so in full unfiltered/ unmasked mode!

All the other times he’s huffed when I’ve made similar comments I just thought was his social conditioning making him respond that way so I have challenged him and eventually he’s gone quiet… but now I know he flat out thinks its made up bullshit I mean what am I meant to do? He’s a good person, but clearly has never had his world view challenged as much as I’m challenging him now? Maybe he’s just been humouring me all these years - which make me really quite angry. I just don’t know what to think… or maybe he was trying to wind me up?! Which again isn’t good… or funny…

"I’m just genuinely shocked that after 17 years together I’ve only just worked out that he doesn’t actually believe in patriarchy. Is this a deal breaker?"

If this is what you're like I am not surprised that he rolled his eyes.

There is but there is also general shitness. My GP was excellent with my peri. The OP's doctors example is bugger all to do with the patriarchy. She just has a crap GP.

...

I’d posit that it’s perfectly logical to hold the opinion “saying you can only be a good person if you buy into the harmful, and exploitative trans ideology is utter nonsense”.

That’s before we even get started on her Palestine folly

Anyone who disputes the existence of the patriarchy should read Caroline Criado Perez's excellent book Invisible Women.

But does she actually use the term "the patriarchy"?

I read it a while ago and may be misremembering but I don't remember her using the term.

It's the eye rolling that would bother me. It signifies contempt for your opinion and I wouldn't stick around anyone who did it even once.

You can have whatever dealbreakers that you wish to have.

My thoughts exactly.

A women's studies grad has taken 17 years to have her first conversation about the patriarchy with her husband? Pull the other one.

I have trouble squaring this. Freedom of movement for all will result in people coming from many countries which hold no truck with women's rights or trans rights. Will you be educating them with leaflets?

This proves nothing without further data. It is just like the BBC pays white people less thread and article.

Terminology is important. These are not theories. The ones ending in ‘chy’ or ‘acy’ are all hierarchical social structures that either have existed or currently exist. The ‘isms’ are social orders and economic systems.

She’s just listed a load of bullshit stuff that Owen Jones has told her to say so she can pretend she’s morally better than everyone else, despite it all being utter nonsense

In fact, the majority of GPs (58%) are women.

Call me a misogynist but have you really been off work sick for months because of premenopausal symptoms? Most women don’t have this luxury and often have to keep working through many different illnesses including things like cancer etc.

We are more than our reproductive organs so saying 2% in to female reproductive health is low because we are 51% of the population does not make sense.

How does that NOT make sense?

It's interesting you say this @LemurLederhosen . My BIL reacted in an exaggerated fashion when I mentioned the patriarchy in a discussion we were having about women's football as if it was a term he had only recently heard (and strongly objected to). I was really surprised that he had got to his 50s without encountering the concept. It was very odd.

Nothing to do with IVF, this is maternity care (see all the newly qualified MW who can't get jobs because NHS won't pay for new ones despite every expensive study saying they are understaffed which increases deaths in women and babies), hysterectomies, cancers - the majority of things women need are not about conception but about not dying because they have female organs that have never been researched or funded for care on NHS.

The comment i responded to mentioned research funding specifically.

I’m surprised given your studies and views that this has never come up seriously before.
I guess the fact that you’ve been together so long either means you don’t talk about social issues and women’s rights, he’s changed his views or he’s never really expressed them.
None of the options would be ideal for me tbh.

I'd be fuming if I was you given its literally your job that he has belittled (as well as women in general). Does he really think that counts for nothing ans you tool your observations for this discussion from tiktok?

Tbh I would ask to share some facts with him. Eg rape stats. Gender pay gap. Studies that show splits in housework between men and women (even in households where women work/ earn more). The study released this week which shows that women have to wait much longer for autoimmune condition diagnoses vs men. The data around pregnancy discrimination. The fact that his daughter is likely at some point to be the victim of at least one of those stats. And see what he says. If it's unsupportive in the face of facts then I'm not sure what I'd do. It woudk be a deal breaker for a new relationship but would be hard to leave an otherwise decent marriage because of it. I'd probably become really petty and ask him if he saw that on YouTube for any of his fundamental beliefs

Between 2011 and 2020, the NIHR awarded roughly £216 million total to the entire Reproductive Health and Childbirth sector. Spanned across a decade, that averages to just around £21.6 million per year to cover all UK public research into reproductive medicine, babies, and maternal care. There were roughly 7 million live births in the UK over that ten-year period. That means at least 7 million pregnancies reached full term, alongside millions more women who experienced miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies, or stillbirths. Millions more required help for non-pregnancy related issues. Roughly 1 in 3 women face a reproductive or gynecological health issue in their lifetime (such as endometriosis, severe menopause symptoms, fibroids, or heavy menstrual bleeding).

The NHS does not fund ED treatments as a lifestyle choice, but it routinely pays for them when ED is a side effect of serious clinical conditions. Over the last decade, the NHS typically spent between £15 million and £40 million annually on ED drug prescriptions and vacuum pumps alone. Helping 400,000 to 750,000 individual men get erections each year during that decade.

Also to add, his response to going through a load of shit related to menopause isn't massively sympathetic here. Even if he doesn't agree it's linked to patriarchy (eg he thinks you've 'just got a shit doctor) he could have kept quiet and said 'sorry you've had a hard time getting the support you need' or similar. Disagreeing with you on this point when it's directly connected to something that's personally shit for you, seems quite unsupportive. Or something (sorry struggling to articulate this point, which is it's YOUR issue not his.) It's a bit like, if you were turned down for a job and suspect its because you have an obviously non-British name and suspect you would have got it if you were called John Smith and are upset about it and he's all 'nah, you just weren't good enough, recruitera arent racist these days' rather than commiserating.

"Women are disproportionately affected by NHS waiting lists, making up 57% of the overall elective care backlog and experiencing longer waits than men"
I'm not saying this is wrong but there are various reasons to suggest that waiting lists would not be 50: 50.

Women live longer meaning that there will naturally be more women needing treatment than men.

Men tend not to go to the GP until seriously ill so by the time they do their health issues are more urgent.

Men are not screened for common sex based cancers like women are so you'd expect there to be more women diagnosed early for treatment and by the time men are diagnosed for their cancer to be more advanced.