To think that not believing in patriarchy is a deal breaker?

[LemurLederhosen]

I was having a little, semi-lighthearted rant in the kitchen the other day about how long it has taken for me to get the help I need to deal with some really awful perimenopausal symptoms. I’ve been off work for months and despite keeping on and on at my GP, only now have I been referred for a HRT appt. I made the age old comment “if men went through all this they’d have been treated straight away, but that’s patriarchy for you”.

DP then simultaneously eye rolled, exhaled and scoffed the word “patriarchy”. So I asked him why. He told me that clearly I’d been brainwashed by all the rubbish on social media into hating men.

I was shocked. So I said I don’t hate men, patriarchy is damaging to men and women so to eradicate it would make a better world for everyone. What are you on about? He basically implied that it’s all a load of bollocks and that I’m only now going on about it because of social media.

I was genuinely shocked. It was as if he thinks that a load of angry women on social media have invented this concept in the last decade? I reminded him that patriarchy is a deeply ingrained system of oppression and has been around for centuries. I reminded him that I specialised in women’s studies at university (he knows this!) and that my PhD in domestic abuse (he also knows this) wouldn’t have existed in the same way without patriarchy at the helm. I’ve always been passionate about equality (for all I might add) and that not only do I take raising our 2 DDs very seriously, but more so the way we raise our DS to feel free and able to express his feelings and emotions in a positive way. He has his moments for sure. But he’s 7!

I’m just genuinely shocked that after 17 years together I’ve only just worked out that he doesn’t actually believe in patriarchy. Is this a deal breaker? I suppose I’ve kept a lid on a lot of my views - mainly because I get to exercise them a lot in the work that I do so never feel the need to “go off on one” at home, unless I’m responding to a news story or something… but now not only am I not at work but I’m also perimenopausal so in full unfiltered/ unmasked mode!

All the other times he’s huffed when I’ve made similar comments I just thought was his social conditioning making him respond that way so I have challenged him and eventually he’s gone quiet… but now I know he flat out thinks its made up bullshit I mean what am I meant to do? He’s a good person, but clearly has never had his world view challenged as much as I’m challenging him now? Maybe he’s just been humouring me all these years - which make me really quite angry. I just don’t know what to think… or maybe he was trying to wind me up?! Which again isn’t good… or funny…

It is shocking and needs addressing, but if this is casually blamed on the “patriarchy”, it follows the fact that three-times as many men commit suicide can be blamed on the “matriarchy”!

And surely, following your logic, denying that it is anything other than the “matriarchy” is absurd.

Obviously that’s stupid, but then so is your childishly reductive logic.

In come the testes

"In come the testes"

What a coherent well thought contribution to the thread😂

So as a zionist terf I’m not a good person? Personally, I believe anyone who can support Hamas (who want the genocide of a whole race) or mentally ill deluded men has such a degree of cognitive dissonance (and ignorance of the facts ) to be off the scale

Thank you!! Finally I poster I relate to. This is precisely my experience too @OnlyMabelInTheBuilding .

Maybe that was a man writing that, but dismissing it like that indicates you can’t really counter the argument… That doesn’t help your argument that the patriarchy exists…

I happen to believe there is some truth to the concept of patriarchy, but the lazy, angry and absolutist way in which some are posting is making me wonder whether it’s more contrived than I had believed…. and is just a way for some embittered women to justify their misandry.

I'm not sure why you're aiming these comments at me.

" the lazy, angry and absolutist way in which some are posting is making me wonder whether it’s more contrived than I had believed…. and is just a way for some embittered women to justify their misandry."

This.

If a man dismissed something a woman said just because it came from a woman they'd be called out for raging misogyny...

Imagine posting on Mumsnet "in come the ovaries"😂

Men can absolutely be treated badly too. Maybe rich men in the patriarchy get get NHS care, but I know lots of men who have had horrendous treatment. And poorer men are often at the bottom of the pile and suffer more than richer women, so I don't think he's being unreasonable at all, and complaining that things only affect women is as bad as saying women all deny that men get hurt and abused, and that there aren't people who take harm against women seriously, but joke that any man abused by a woman is a wimp.
Rather than focusing on specific groups, let's try to make things better for everyone.Two things can be true at once: medical misogyny exists, but the NHS lets down many men too.

Lazy! I have very patiently shared the facts and figures and he has walked in, not even read them and decided he knows best, based on no factual evidence at all.

Mansplaining at it's finest. There is no point engaging with these posters because all they want to do is waste time.

I’d be wondering what social media he’s been exposed to tbh.

I did a sort of hollow laugh at him mansplaining this to you though.

It is a deal breaker for me. I’m not interested in “the other side”because the patriarchy is damaging to men also, they just refuse to see it.

If my husband ever rolled his eyes at my lived experience, he’d be out the door faster than you can say misogynistic prick.

Tell me you don’t know know how privilege works, without telling me….

Presumably because there are dozens and dozens of aspects of health other than female reproduction that need research, so without further context, it’s not possible to say whether 2% is or isn’t a reasonable figure.

I’d be out the door if anyone ever mentioned ‘lived experience’

Tell me that you wallow in self-pity and have a victim mentality, without telling me…

I pity your husband - poor man.

Can’t stand people who think it’s ‘bots’ when it’s a comment you disagree with. I’d hate to live in your little bubble

What made you say that men would be treated straight away if it was the other way around?
I'm going through the menopause and some of my friends are peri menopausal. They bore me to death talking about it constantly, it's like it has become their whole personality. And believe me I struggle with the menopause. I roll my eyes when women literally talk about it all the time. (I'm not saying that is you do and you sound incredibly intelligent)

Yeah. Those are all defined political terms.

If you want to use patriarchy in the political sense, it's definable and objective.

But that's not how it's typically used in feminism and it's not how the OP was using it.

"Lazy! I have very patiently shared the facts and figures and he has walked in, not even read them and decided he knows best, based on no factual evidence at all."

But you have not allowed for the nuance
For example women according to NHS England make up 57% of the waiting list but also make up 58% of outpatients appointments and just under 55% of consultant appointments so making up 57% of waiting lists is not disproportionate, and does not constitute evidence of "patriarchy".

But I guess these facts don't count since they gave been posted by someone with testes so you can just dismiss them as mainsplaing

Absolutely, it’s incredibly lazy-minded, not to mention arrogant, for her to believe she can just pontificate and expect everyone just to accept her arguments as gospel truth, and not even attempt to counter an opposing view.

The poster very clearly had read your post, and had replied with very relevant counter points. And you dismissed him as "mansplaining". You aren't coming across well here.

I think it's a deal breaker.

I couldn't have sex with someone that stupid.

Would you say that 51% of the budget should go to women's reproductive health?