To think that not believing in patriarchy is a deal breaker?

[LemurLederhosen]

I was having a little, semi-lighthearted rant in the kitchen the other day about how long it has taken for me to get the help I need to deal with some really awful perimenopausal symptoms. I’ve been off work for months and despite keeping on and on at my GP, only now have I been referred for a HRT appt. I made the age old comment “if men went through all this they’d have been treated straight away, but that’s patriarchy for you”.

DP then simultaneously eye rolled, exhaled and scoffed the word “patriarchy”. So I asked him why. He told me that clearly I’d been brainwashed by all the rubbish on social media into hating men.

I was shocked. So I said I don’t hate men, patriarchy is damaging to men and women so to eradicate it would make a better world for everyone. What are you on about? He basically implied that it’s all a load of bollocks and that I’m only now going on about it because of social media.

I was genuinely shocked. It was as if he thinks that a load of angry women on social media have invented this concept in the last decade? I reminded him that patriarchy is a deeply ingrained system of oppression and has been around for centuries. I reminded him that I specialised in women’s studies at university (he knows this!) and that my PhD in domestic abuse (he also knows this) wouldn’t have existed in the same way without patriarchy at the helm. I’ve always been passionate about equality (for all I might add) and that not only do I take raising our 2 DDs very seriously, but more so the way we raise our DS to feel free and able to express his feelings and emotions in a positive way. He has his moments for sure. But he’s 7!

I’m just genuinely shocked that after 17 years together I’ve only just worked out that he doesn’t actually believe in patriarchy. Is this a deal breaker? I suppose I’ve kept a lid on a lot of my views - mainly because I get to exercise them a lot in the work that I do so never feel the need to “go off on one” at home, unless I’m responding to a news story or something… but now not only am I not at work but I’m also perimenopausal so in full unfiltered/ unmasked mode!

All the other times he’s huffed when I’ve made similar comments I just thought was his social conditioning making him respond that way so I have challenged him and eventually he’s gone quiet… but now I know he flat out thinks its made up bullshit I mean what am I meant to do? He’s a good person, but clearly has never had his world view challenged as much as I’m challenging him now? Maybe he’s just been humouring me all these years - which make me really quite angry. I just don’t know what to think… or maybe he was trying to wind me up?! Which again isn’t good… or funny…

Yes, I'm well aware of that. As explained in my post, I just said that don't think the language of privilege is a good way to frame such discussions.

You'll alienate white people by making them think that you want the police to harass them too, when instead the focus should be on improving things for black people.

And if a white woman does not realise that other people are stopped by the police regularly, then it's much clearer to just say she is being ignorant.

You have been married 17 years. People change. He may have believed some things 17 years ago that he doesn't believe now, and vice versa. The same applies to you hopefully - have you changed over the last 17 years? If you haven't, that is a sad indictment of your lack of personal growth.

When you get married, that is not a guarantee that the person you are marrying will be the same in 17 or 20 or 30 years time.

Unfortunately, some people change for the worst. They don't 'grow', they regress.
If you no longer like who he is now, well you know the answer.

Is this possibly also related to the % of F/M users of the NHS? With regard to outpatients and inpatients, it's roughly 58% women, and 42% men.

Are you really that unaware that some women are complicit in the patriarchy? I’m sure I have been at some points without realising. It’s interwoven into the fabric of society so it’s perfectly reasonable for her to bring it up.

I’ve had female GPs downplay my crippling period pain for years and it took one gynae to take my seriously when I turned up at a&e refusing to leave that was able to find the cause of it and it’s changed my life.

There are women who report of having symptoms taken seriously when they rock up to the GP with a man after many unsuccessful visits by themselves or with another woman.

This isn’t just bad luck, it’s a systemic issue partly rooted in patriarchy.

And are you also aware that there is a lack of research into women’s health?

It is mostly down to huge waiting lists for gynae. It is the most underfunded department and the one with least research. Roughly 740,000 women across the UK are currently trapped on a gynaecology waiting list.

people interpret these words differently.
my father in law goes on about the feminazi, all this feminism causing havoc etc…because he heard it on radio two.. we kept arguing about it… I then did some research about it and sent it to him, explaining that there are different types of feminism, that when I talk about feminism I am talking about equal pay and opportunity for women, which he wholeheartedly agrees with, but his definition of feminism that he was talking about was the extreme type.. so we were both talking about feminism but hadn’t defined what we were talking about and had ended up getting annoyed with each other. Once we cleared that up we actually agreed on pretty much the same things. We were using the term in two different ways.
before you walk out on your relationship, I would do a bit of research, what does he think you mean by ‘the patriarchy’ and what do you mean, what are the different meanings out there that people are using it for. There are certainly many interpretations and it’s probably crossed wires and if you take away the term and just use the meaning, you will probably find you agree, or at least can understand the other persons point of view.

That is absolutely shocking. And that people would deny this is patriarchy at work is absurd.

If you don’t believe a man can magically become a woman, or that we should be encouraging kids to mutilate their bodies you’re not a good person?

You’re deranged

Strikingly, only about 2% of UK public health research funding is allocated to reproductive health and childbirth, despite women making up over 51% of the population. It is quite clearly a huge driver of the disparities in health.

So 17 years. It was your PhD subject so clearly something important to you ?

And this is the first time the topic has come up in conversation.

OK.

It isnt usually about wanting to police to also harass us, it's about whether the police are actually screening who might be a criminal well enough. Surely we want the police to "harass" those who are committing crime and we definitely want to stop crime at its source. Not just fire fight at ground level.

This is when comversations about the police and white privilege might come in.

Okay but not everyone supports lots of funding going to fertility care aimed at ensuring everyone can have a baby if they so wish. A fair amount of people think IVF shouldn't be on the NHS for example.

Are you under the impression that women can't also support patriarchy? In the same way women support rape culture by blaming what the victim was wearing, being out alone at night, talking to inappropriate men, shouldn't have made him angry and on and on.

Honestly, I switch off when I head the P word. *Awaits flaming

I’ve worked in a traditional male-dominated industry for years, I’ve never personally had any issues with it. I find in the real world hard work is mostly recognised and rewarded.

I think you probably irritated him because the NHS provides a pretty poor service to everyone.

You're the one slinging insults into the ether. Not entirely logical.

A relationship is meant to be fun not a war
People are entitled to their own opinion
I and hubby disagree on many things
Also we wind each other up it is called banter
I feel sorry for your guy you just sound hard work and very entitled self absorbed
Yes he ius right you are brainwashed as well life is not a battle

The bank account thing is not actually true. Its a subtle difference but the actual fact is that women could be refused a bank account by the bank, not that they were not allowed to have one. I am making the correction because when people speak about the patriarchy and I agree that women were discriminated about and, in some respects still are, its really important to get the facts correct. getting things wrong does not help the argument. Its like "oh mammograms would be less painful if men had them" when the truth is that men do have them because men do get breast cancer. Its true they are in the minority but we do need to get the facts right.

Just end things. You are too far apart on your beliefs. It is weird you took 17 years to get to that realisation.

me. I am childless not by choice and think that the money spent by the NHS on IVF could be put to better use....

Be honest, do you go on these rants a lot? Are you making him feel that he constantly needs to apologise for being born with a penis? If so, I can understand an occasional eye roll.

Being a misogynistic dinosaur is definitely something that would leave me questioning the relationship. But an eye roll at the (likely) repeated use of a buzzword from contested academic theory and ideology? I'd first ask yourself whether you are becoming a bit of a bore.

It’s like ‘not believing in’ gravity.

It really isn't.

Gravity has a very precise definition which everyone agrees on. Patriarchy does not.

Furthermore, gravity is either present or not. Patriarchy can be stronger or weaker.

.... but as a member of a group responsible for very little crime, why would you be stopped?

If the issue is the police are not prioritising resources effectively, again I don't think white privilege is a helpful way to frame that.

It might be that a white criminal has a privilege in that if police resources are misused they are more likely to get away with their crime. But if you're in a conversation with law-abiding people it won't make much sense. White people hear it as "you have an unfair advantage that should be taken away from you" even if that is not the intention. It would be clearer to just talk about racism in the police and its consequences.

Really we all want to see the police effectively target the criminals and leave everyone else alone as much as possible, and if we can get away from some of these labels it will be much easier to find common ground.