To think that a comfortable middle class existence is basically unattainable for the vast majority of people.

[joelm1776]

I was thinking today about how much someone would actually need to earn per year in order to have a traditionally financially comfortable middle class existence. This, to me, means having a family one parent being able to look after the kids, being financially secure and having some pleasures in one's life on a regular basis but not necessarily any extravagant pleasures ie. not having multiple holidays a year, or luxury items or fine dining meals out. I know these things are fairly subjective, but I would like to think that my judgements here are quite middle of the road. I'll show you my working:

2 parents and 2 child household

1. £17,000 per year in mortgage payments for a 3 bedroom house (average price of a 3 bedroom house in the UK is about £275,0000)
2. £8,300 per year in supermarket shopping
3. £5,500 rough estimate for running 2 cars per year (one for commuting one for short journeys) including fuel, tax, MOT, insurance and maintenance.
4. £5,000 utilities, internet and council tax for 3 bedroom house
5. £1,000 per year on clothing (£20 per person per month)
6. £2,500 repairs and long term replacement fund for house.
7. £2,000 student debt
8. £6,000 one family meal out at a mid-range restaurant per week
9. £1400 2 night out for drinks with friends per month for each parent.
10. £3,000 one week family holiday to mainland European destination per year.
11. £1,500 pocket money for kids
12. £1,200 sports clubs and gyms memberships
13. £1,500 general household items excluding clothing and food
14. £2250 large purchase fund (e.g two cars lasting 15 years each, 4 smartphones lasting 5 years each etc)
15. £2,000 saved for other contingencies

Total = £60150 net + 7.5% saved as a pension = aprox £64650
Total gross = £94000

so basically you need to earn £100K even if you don't live in London, and only the top 5% of uk earners earn around this amount and most of those people probably work in London.

I know the the mortgage figure ignores the fact that people often have equity from other properties, but that makes the calculation a bit too complex

Most people I know survive on a lot less than that!
it is depressing tho I agree
everything is so expensive these days but I think people are savvy I know I try to sell as much as I can to recoup money as do a lot of my friends too.

Family meal at a restaurant every week? £3000 for a 1 week holiday? This has to be a joke thread.

When I was a child/teenager in the 60s/70s few people lived like that. Tax credits and low interest rates totally skewed it.

However, family meal out once a week at £125 a pop is bonkers.

£3k isn't a lot for a week abroad in the school holidays!

Just to clarify, I am not suggesting that these figures are normal or what someone should expect. I am suggesting that they are a benchmark for a moderately affluent middle class lifestyle

Where are you going on holiday that it's less than 3k for a family of four in school holidays? And don't say camping, that's not a comfortable middle class existence unless you go to a very expensive glamping site with all mod cons.

We used to go out for a meal most weeks, maybe 10 years ago. Can't afford it anymore.

You wouldn’t get a middle class holiday for a family of 4 for 7 nights in Europe for £3000 these days.

There was a thread recently about how much people spend on holidays and this is on the very low end. I was surprised too.

Nobody middle class living in a 275k house unless they’re in the north east is there?

I think your numbers overall look too low, but I don’t think it’s reasonable in this day and age to plan for only one person to be working. Split across two incomes this is much more achievable, although appreciate that may add childcare costs.

okay. maybe that's too low. I guess it's even less attainable than i thought haha

Why is it "middle class" for only one person to be working? Assuming the children are school age rather than pre school, I genuinely don't consider that something to want or aspire to.

Okay but we’re not in the 60s/70s.

I don’t think £125 a week for a family activity is bonkers. The OP said restaurant but it could be a day out somewhere, or cinema plus a cheaper meal etc.

The question is about a comfortable MC lifestyle, not just an average lifestyle.

We have about 71,000 gross and I only work 12 hours a week, so nearly a sahp.
We don't eat out once a week. It's gone up to about once a month lately out of convenience/laziness but we can't really afford that.
Drinks out now and again, probably more like 1-2 a week, not a month.
Holidays in the UK and always self catering. Often with family so split cost of a cottage.
No gym membership etc
Only one car
No savings
And lower mortgage payments than you're postulating - approx 900/month.
Kids pocket money about 1/10th of your suggestion

It's not the middle classes going out drinking with mates. We can't afford it.

I'm also too scared to go to Wetherspoons, as it causes mobility issues: loads of punters seem to need walking sticks.

So the OP's question was AIBU "To think that a comfortable middle class existence is basically unattainable for the vast majority of people" - so is she being U or not?

Are we saying that those figures are too high or too low and if too low then that rather does prove the OP's point? Personally, I know quite a few people who have that existence, but then I live in the South east, so maybe that's why. However, I am literally on the breadline having lost my job and I think whilst I may have had a sniff of that life whilst married, its long gone now; divorced, redundant, single parent, no property, nearish to retirement. It's looking shite. But yeah, I do still know a significant number of people that have the "comfortable middle class existence". (not sure what point I'm making now either!!)

I’d say I grew up in a solid middle class family. Dad a doctor and mother a medical social worker until we moved to the US where she couldn’t work. Detached house. But we ate out maybe once a month. And that’s true today! And my three bed house is £1200/year utilities (and I have a dryer and gas fire). So I think your numbers are very skewed.

This. No generation in my family had a SAHM for more than a year or two, school age at the very most, going back three generations on both sides. My grandmothers were both single parents. And they’d be well into their 100s now if they were still here. Women have worked for the vast majority of human existence both historically and geographically.

Preschool age is expensive and you cut your cloth. But realistically, the childcare years are short.

It is hard for most people but does get better - it really does.

Blimey. You need at least 200K to be remotely 'middle class' - whatever that actually means.

Ditto @MrsTerryPratchett. I'd describe myself as middle class but neither myself, my mum nor my grandma were a SAHM beyond the pre school years.

Yep. That's because 100k is no longer some magically wealthy income. If tax rates had kept up with inflation it think that top rate and all the punishment deductions would now be at income above about 225k.

Two cars?!? Come on now

Middle class is different now. It means just about covering your bills with no energy left to argue for a better goverment and less taxes.

Middle class means a bit of extra money that can be taxed.

We are in 2026, not 1986!!

£275k is the price of a small flat in lots of middle class nice areas. 3 bed family homes with a garden and a drive are upwards of £700k where I live (south west). Council tax alone is £3.5K per year for a 3 bed family house. It’s very easy to spend a hell of a lot of money on mortgage and bills if you live in a nice area.