To think that a comfortable middle class existence is basically unattainable for the vast majority of people.

[joelm1776]

I was thinking today about how much someone would actually need to earn per year in order to have a traditionally financially comfortable middle class existence. This, to me, means having a family one parent being able to look after the kids, being financially secure and having some pleasures in one's life on a regular basis but not necessarily any extravagant pleasures ie. not having multiple holidays a year, or luxury items or fine dining meals out. I know these things are fairly subjective, but I would like to think that my judgements here are quite middle of the road. I'll show you my working:

2 parents and 2 child household

1. £17,000 per year in mortgage payments for a 3 bedroom house (average price of a 3 bedroom house in the UK is about £275,0000)
2. £8,300 per year in supermarket shopping
3. £5,500 rough estimate for running 2 cars per year (one for commuting one for short journeys) including fuel, tax, MOT, insurance and maintenance.
4. £5,000 utilities, internet and council tax for 3 bedroom house
5. £1,000 per year on clothing (£20 per person per month)
6. £2,500 repairs and long term replacement fund for house.
7. £2,000 student debt
8. £6,000 one family meal out at a mid-range restaurant per week
9. £1400 2 night out for drinks with friends per month for each parent.
10. £3,000 one week family holiday to mainland European destination per year.
11. £1,500 pocket money for kids
12. £1,200 sports clubs and gyms memberships
13. £1,500 general household items excluding clothing and food
14. £2250 large purchase fund (e.g two cars lasting 15 years each, 4 smartphones lasting 5 years each etc)
15. £2,000 saved for other contingencies

Total = £60150 net + 7.5% saved as a pension = aprox £64650
Total gross = £94000

so basically you need to earn £100K even if you don't live in London, and only the top 5% of uk earners earn around this amount and most of those people probably work in London.

I know the the mortgage figure ignores the fact that people often have equity from other properties, but that makes the calculation a bit too complex

@intsjl26 I grew up in the 80s with 1 car, 1 holiday abroad maybe 2 some years. Mum didn’t work for quite some time. Days out were usually in the holidays but did have hobbies/sports. Eating out was more normal on holiday whereas it would be more Pizza Hut or McDs here. Very similar lifestyle to neighbours & school friends. Biggest difference was the houses we lived in, wouldn’t be possible today unless you were wealthy & it was normal for families to have 3 plus dc which again wouldn’t be typical today.

No, I do agree it's not feasible now given how much everything costs, but if I was to live what I would regard as a comfortable middle class life I don't think going to pizza express/nandos/wagamamas once a week would be too unreasonable a request.

You should be the PM or perhaps a maths teacher.

I don’t think the internet is a luxury just because it didn’t exist in homes in the past.

I know lots of families with 2 cars but that is because both parents work so it’s often logistics.

European holidays became cheap in the 90s with no frills carriers, I went all over Europe very cheaply. Holidays are much more expensive now.

Well done on getting the numbers to actually number!

Yes interesting. I was raised in a working class family although my parents did own their home, we lived in the SE and there is not a chance they in their working class roles today could afford the house we had back then today. It was only a small 3 bed terrace but I dread to think what it would cost now.

I don’t actually know many women with younger dc who work f/t. P/t is the norm.

I’m in the North, squarely middle class, house is worth more than £275k but my 95% mortgage is only £15k a year so I think OP’s numbers give some wiggle room on this.

and people begrudge pensioners 1k a month .........;

Your overall point that £100k household income gets an ok lifestyle these days is fair, yes.

But I disagree it needs to come from one person's income. I would say I grew up lower middle class and both my parents worked in the public sector.
We took annual camping holidays, to the south of France, it wasn't expensive so £3k would be a fair current equivalent. A big difference is the £125 weekly eating out budget would be weekly fish and chip takeaway (as good as never ate out), no kids pocket money (expect to get a paper round from 13), very little in the way of sports clubs / gym memberships.

I think you’re confusing income and class here though.
I would say on paper we are lower MC - DH and I university educated, both in “professional” jobs, own our own home, don’t qualify for any benefits apart from child benefit, run 2 cars (needed for work).
We still don’t have a “comfortable middle class lifestyle” though, and actually our lifestyle is getting worse and worse even though we aren’t earning less.
We certainly can’t afford to eat out weekly, we don’t have loads of savings, food prices feel insane and we’re having to be more and more careful what we’re spending on.
Even 10 years ago, I was still working part time for childcare and we felt like we had more money than now, we had lunch out most weekends, food shopping wasn’t as stressful.

This is the problem, a lot of people are middle earners like we are and in the 90s when I was a teenager that would have meant you were middle class easily. Now it jut doesn’t- you need to be a higher earner to achieve a comfortable middle class life .

@intsjl26 on my families old road you would be looking at 1.4m plus. It’s insane, my parents were immigrants like many of our neighbours & it was a roughish part of London.

I sort of agree - nobody with a middle class lifestyle is living in a house worth that.

But, as we know, class is about so much more than lifestyle. See aristocrats living in penury, nary a family meal at Frankie and Bennies once a month, let alone once a week .

And spending £1000 a month on doggie treats wouldn't make someone working class any more posh!

🙃

I'm unsure how many people have ever had that lifestyle.
My DH had that life growing up - stay at home mother, two holidays most years, car , no financial worries.
On the other hand, his family NEVER went to a restaurant, always took a picnic and thermos when travelling, slept in a car rather then pay for hotel when travelling to visit relatives abroad, never went to the pub. Mother cooked all meals from scratch, extensively repaired clothes, grew vegetables and fruit. When my SIL got married, the reception was at home.
Yes, they had mo financial worries, but they also used the extra time available from DMIL being a SAHM to avoid unnecessary expenses. They would not have dreamed of spending in the way considered necessary these days.
So, I think changed attitudes also have a lot to do with it.
Women entering the workforce in large numbers has necessitated much time -saving spending.

How do the finances of a family with multiple children, with costs associated with raising children and the early stages of the housing ladder relate to that of a pensioner?

🤔

Hilarious list, btw!

Quite

When I was a kid, if you were lucky, there was the family car, not a car each for Mum, Dad and one for every adult child, that would have been considered lower middle class.

I think there’s a huge disconnect between what the media pushes as “average” living and the reality of it.

There are no breakfast clubs for OAPS either

So true. The places in London some of my very poor family lived generations ago… wouldn’t get close now!

Our house is worth over double that and we pay less than that for our mortgage!

I also think there is a narrative that many families today are wasting X or Y on this of that when in reality many are careful & whilst they may spend on one area they cut back on another.

We have a 6 fig income, I work p/t, mortgage a lot higher than OP, old 2nd hand car, holiday this summer was UK & a little under 3k. Take packed lunches to work & days out, eating out & takeaways very little & much less vs pre covid. No gym memberships, dc do a few activities. It isn’t that different vs my childhood apart from my parents had a much bigger house, more dc & lower earnings.

I'm 52, middle class upbringing, and even when I was young there were 2 working parents in all my friends' households. Most had mums that worked part time, but that definitely helped. My mum worked full time and earned more than my dad although that was unusual.