To think that a comfortable middle class existence is basically unattainable for the vast majority of people.

[joelm1776]

I was thinking today about how much someone would actually need to earn per year in order to have a traditionally financially comfortable middle class existence. This, to me, means having a family one parent being able to look after the kids, being financially secure and having some pleasures in one's life on a regular basis but not necessarily any extravagant pleasures ie. not having multiple holidays a year, or luxury items or fine dining meals out. I know these things are fairly subjective, but I would like to think that my judgements here are quite middle of the road. I'll show you my working:

2 parents and 2 child household

1. £17,000 per year in mortgage payments for a 3 bedroom house (average price of a 3 bedroom house in the UK is about £275,0000)
2. £8,300 per year in supermarket shopping
3. £5,500 rough estimate for running 2 cars per year (one for commuting one for short journeys) including fuel, tax, MOT, insurance and maintenance.
4. £5,000 utilities, internet and council tax for 3 bedroom house
5. £1,000 per year on clothing (£20 per person per month)
6. £2,500 repairs and long term replacement fund for house.
7. £2,000 student debt
8. £6,000 one family meal out at a mid-range restaurant per week
9. £1400 2 night out for drinks with friends per month for each parent.
10. £3,000 one week family holiday to mainland European destination per year.
11. £1,500 pocket money for kids
12. £1,200 sports clubs and gyms memberships
13. £1,500 general household items excluding clothing and food
14. £2250 large purchase fund (e.g two cars lasting 15 years each, 4 smartphones lasting 5 years each etc)
15. £2,000 saved for other contingencies

Total = £60150 net + 7.5% saved as a pension = aprox £64650
Total gross = £94000

so basically you need to earn £100K even if you don't live in London, and only the top 5% of uk earners earn around this amount and most of those people probably work in London.

I know the the mortgage figure ignores the fact that people often have equity from other properties, but that makes the calculation a bit too complex

I always think it takes a lot to live well in London where i am. I earn circa 100K as a single parent. No mortgage as i bought over 20 years ago in London. I live relatively frugally - no big holidays or a car but i do have school fees of around 60K a year. I top this up with savings. I have worked since i graduated so built up a pot of savings. I can afford to eat out regularly if i wanted to - and i could buy what i want in terms of clothing - but i dont really. I also dont drink - and i think eating out is so much cheaper without this.

Everyone i know is on good incomes but finding it hard - so i think it must be near impossible to live well in London these days/let alone get on the property ladder.

@Cranberryhead how do you live if 60k
of your 100k is on fees?!

100k gross is 68k net but before pension

I clarified what I meant by education. And I didn’t mention private, I did mention public school. Private schools are a conversation all by themselves !. Those that are very good versus those that are exploiting aspirational parents but the school is actually pretty useless in terms of education.

A degree is needed for all manner of jobs these days.
And many unnecessarily so. Yes it is expensive. Many people from all backgrounds go.

But we will have to agree to differ. Or we will go round in circular conversations.

Public school to me means a form of private hence me mentioning it but yes agree to disagree

Hi @dottondool , so i probably should add i get 700 child support monthly for 2 children. I am on my credit card each month though and eating into my savings. Its a stretch but my choice to go private.

That makes more sense