To think that a comfortable middle class existence is basically unattainable for the vast majority of people.

[joelm1776]

I was thinking today about how much someone would actually need to earn per year in order to have a traditionally financially comfortable middle class existence. This, to me, means having a family one parent being able to look after the kids, being financially secure and having some pleasures in one's life on a regular basis but not necessarily any extravagant pleasures ie. not having multiple holidays a year, or luxury items or fine dining meals out. I know these things are fairly subjective, but I would like to think that my judgements here are quite middle of the road. I'll show you my working:

2 parents and 2 child household

1. £17,000 per year in mortgage payments for a 3 bedroom house (average price of a 3 bedroom house in the UK is about £275,0000)
2. £8,300 per year in supermarket shopping
3. £5,500 rough estimate for running 2 cars per year (one for commuting one for short journeys) including fuel, tax, MOT, insurance and maintenance.
4. £5,000 utilities, internet and council tax for 3 bedroom house
5. £1,000 per year on clothing (£20 per person per month)
6. £2,500 repairs and long term replacement fund for house.
7. £2,000 student debt
8. £6,000 one family meal out at a mid-range restaurant per week
9. £1400 2 night out for drinks with friends per month for each parent.
10. £3,000 one week family holiday to mainland European destination per year.
11. £1,500 pocket money for kids
12. £1,200 sports clubs and gyms memberships
13. £1,500 general household items excluding clothing and food
14. £2250 large purchase fund (e.g two cars lasting 15 years each, 4 smartphones lasting 5 years each etc)
15. £2,000 saved for other contingencies

Total = £60150 net + 7.5% saved as a pension = aprox £64650
Total gross = £94000

so basically you need to earn £100K even if you don't live in London, and only the top 5% of uk earners earn around this amount and most of those people probably work in London.

I know the the mortgage figure ignores the fact that people often have equity from other properties, but that makes the calculation a bit too complex

Hardly anyone pays nannies! I earn £200k and most of my friends are on £100k +, none of us used nannies

Agree

I'm not sure class has anything to do with it but I think your calculations highlight how impossible it is for families to meet living costs in the UK at present.

I asked AI to do something similar and interestingly it came out with very similar overall figures although the spread was different. I asked it to base it in the midlands as I think location matters. It came out needing to earn £95-100,000 gross (in a mostly balanced split, obviously that can impact take home).

It considered a middle class lifestyle in the midlands to be a 4 bed home worth about £380-420k, one 10-14 European holiday a year (about £5000) £600 a month on cars it (it stated one on finance and one paid off hatch). Have to admit that does sound like most of the middle class families I know around here.

Yes this

We bring in a bit less but are pretty comfortable now as have no mortgage. Cars are old. I love eating out and concerts etc but they could easily go if we needed.

You probably want to add in a category there for 'saving for the kids' uni/house deposits/first cars/driving lessons'.

Most of the well off middle classes I know benefit not so much from income, but from
inherited wealth. That’s where the privilege comes from because they never had to struggle to scrape together a mortgage deposit, or uni fees, or their first car. Those things just magically appeared.

I’m in my late 50s and still have a huge mortgage - the idea of saving is still a luxury to me. No inherited wealth here. Just lifelong struggle trying to pay bills and give your kids something approximating ‘normal’.

Rhr Issue is the lack of growth. If the historical growth had continued since 2007 the median wage earner would be £16,000 better off a year and the tax man would get their share if it. The lack of growth has meant that you are £16k worse off, and the tax man is too so you are taxed more heavily in the little you have. The only democratic that this is not affecting is the pensioners.

Exonomists are working hard to suggest to Andy Burnham how we can tackle this lack of growth and get that £16k (and more in future years) back in your pocket with an initiative called 2030 Prosperity Alliance. They’ve just released a really interesting report discussing why you’re skint and how we can get more money back to the workers. I’d recommend you read it, if only to remind yourself that it’s not something that you are doing wrong here. Everyone is suffering the same, and the government has things they could do about it. Let’s hope they do.

https://www.2030prosperityalliance.co.uk

I question whether only one person working is an aspiration of a middle class family, I would say more that of an upper middle class family.

All middle class families I know both parents work.

What I will say, as a DGMa, our input, grandparents contributing to some of the things you itemise @joelm1776 is essential, if one is lucky enough to have these family dynamics.

We do contribute considerably. We see are our adult DC working hard, bringing up young families that we are part of and pay for some of the extras and do some of the childcare, in order to continue the comfortable middle class existence.

Your vision of 'traditional middle class' life has never really existed. It's based on sanitised portrayals and rose-tinted glasses.

There was a brief period in the mid 20th century when it came closest for a significant portion of the population, but even then 'close' was '1 working parent being able to afford a house, car and the odd luxury'. Barely anyone even then had 2 cars, weekly meals out and annual overseas holidays. None had most of the tech you describe because it didn't exist. Student debt wasn't a thing because only 3% of people went to university - mostly men.

The world has changed, yes; but it was never as you think it was.

Well most middle class people without additional help can’t afford for one parent to be out of work. At most they might take a couple of years, but much more likely for one parent to go part time.

I am not sure if this is a total exception, but my parents (both in middle class jobs) had to both work full time to afford life like you describe in the 90s with 2 kids in the south east.

And thinking of how my Mum was raised in the 60s, yes they only had one working parent but also only one car and very few luxuries. Definitely not weekly meals out or annual holidays abroad.

Fuck me why are so many people determined to miss the point on threads like this? No you don't need to run two cars or spend a chunk on sports clubs or on eating out, but the point is that those are things that many, many middle class families could reasonably comfortably afford to do for quite a while but which are becoming unrealistic for an increasing number. The fact that the picture the OP paints doesn't correpond exactly to your life isn't relevant, and nor is the fact that you can scrape by on far less if you want/need to. My grandparents got by without an indoor toilet, central heating, telly or car, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be indifferent if my living standards were reduced to that.

Edit: the one thing I do agree with is that achieving the sort of life the OP mentions on just the one salary has never been particularly common.

Why is this bonkers? That's literally how much it would cost to go to pizza express or similar for a family of four now, we aren't talking fancy restaurants. And I don't think it's out of the question to want to do that at the weekend as something nice for everyone.

@FudgeFudy but is it unrealistic for a lot of people? I think this thread is more interesting for trying to get to the bottom of what an average lifestyle is and how that compares to the 80s and 90s, rather than the cost.

A mortgaged home and one holiday abroad a year was squarely middle class in the 80s, I highly suspect the same amount of people or more are doing that these days, but they don’t see it as middle class because expectations are higher. Nowadays it’s 2 cars, multiple holidays, tutoring, etc.

I guess what I’m trying to say if more people were happy to accept an 80s middle class style lifestyle, many people would afford that. Where I am at least, appreciate SE is complicated by horrific house prices.

Yes absolutely agree with this. The lifestyle portrayed by OP is not really sustainable long term. Some people who appear to have it all are up to eyes in debt.

@Retiler. yep growth is the issue

The problem with putting specific figures is people quibble that their holidays cost more or less or they dont go out for drinks because there isnt one set middle class lifestyle.

But ultimately the cost of living has increased for everyone.

Unlike others, I think a sahm at least for the early years, was a bit of a middle class thing until quite recently. Women have worked hard to get into professional roles and get things like mat leave and proper childcare in place i think what women do for work and how they work has changed massively over my lifetime.

But regardless, two people working full time still need to earn a lot to live middleclass lifestyle

I agree with the sentiment, and that people are nitpicking. The actual numbers will differ, 6k on family means might be a bit high but £3k on an abroad family sun holiday in summer holidays will be more and in many places the mortgage payment will be higher too so overall the total number is probably right.
I’ll admit I even questioned ‘no way does a family need to spend £8.3k a year on grocery shopping’ and then I realised it was £160 a week which is probably easily spent on food, lunch boxes, toiletries and cleaning supplies.

Of course you don’t need all these things, but if you can’t sign your kids up to the odd hobby, have a meal out and book a holiday then you don’t have a comfortable lifestyle, which is what OP is talking about.

Also middle class is a very broad category with very different lifestyles and incomes within it, so there is no single average middle class life that you can stick a value on. Some middle class people will be sending their kids to private school and going on 5 holidays a year, while others will be massively struggling just to get by.

Side note this has made me realise I really need to view our spending yearly rather than weekly.

We are a high income family and I wouldn’t dream of spending £125 on a meal out every week, especially on microwaved chain restaurant food. Admittedly I grew up working class so maybe my expectations are different but eating out has always been a treat and not a regular occurrence.

Don't you? For me it would be an absolute luxury to be able to look after my own child instead of outsourcing childcare so that I can work. And with school looming, I would love to be able to drop off and pick up without using wrap-around, and have the time to make lovely home cooked meals without the post work rush and panic of getting everyone fed and my little one bathed and in bed in what is essentially a one hour window.

Yes, there's several items on there that have only developed as expectations in recent years - internet, gym membership, European holiday, 2 cars.Running a car is very, very expensive (as most people realise, f course).

I don’t think there’s anything inherently middle class about one parent staying home. Everyone I know with a professional job that would put them in “middle class” income bracket have a partner also with a career. £100k income between two university educated professionals is not uncommon.

I don’t think it’s an aspiration for middle classes for one parent not to work. In my circle of friends (so a limited sample size), neither parent wanted to give up work after they had children.

I also think the figures are a bit low. The holiday fund seems low, I would say a week or two at Easter and then at least two in the summer. Also going out to eat also seems on the low side.