To not pay their air fare

[rookiemere]

Please if you recognise me don’t out me.

I am an only DC, after a tough year of hard decline from dementia, both DPs are now in a care home close to me. It costs a lot, but thankfully DPs have amassed a lot of savings so I worked out the other day that they can afford it for around 8 years for both of them - they’re 92 and 87 respectively in poor physical health as well, so this should be enough.

The dilemma is this. DF is from another country originally. He is very generous to his nieces my cousins, because their DF died early under unpleasant circumstances. He has offered to pay their fares, 2 of my cousins have declined but one has made it into an annual trip with DPs covering the air fares, bringing along her DH and staying for too long periods at our house. They aren’t ideal house guests so DH put his foot down and said they couldn’t stay for an extended trip again. Accommodation where we live is expensive.

So anyway last night I got an email saying they were thinking of coming over and when would be convenient and what B&B could I recommend. No mention of air fares, so I thought maybe I should say that as the care fees are so expensive DPs can no longer cover the air fare. TBH I don’t think they should even be asking, but I suspect the trip will be unaffordable for them if they have to pay for somewhere to sleep and flights.

I know DF would get some joy from seeing them, and to be fair to my cousin she is very fond of him and he’s almost like a substitute DF in her mind. Technically DPs could afford the flights, but I need to be responsible with their money. I thought I could maybe suggest a contribution of £1k which would help with the fares, but not fully cover them.

DF thinks I shouldn’t mention it and make them ask if they want it. I think that’s coloured by the fact he finds the DH very difficult to get on with and feels they are grabby - as do I to be fair. He says it’s my money, but it’s not at the minute it’s very much still DPs and I am just enacting their wishes.

So AIBU not to offer the money when it’s been paid for in the past ?

Apologies if I respond periodically as going into work shortly.

And at the same time “Hi DC, as you know grab and grandad have had to move into a care home which is really expensive. I am responsible for managing their money to ensure we can pay for their care so we can no longer pay your allowance. I’m sure you understand”

@rookiemere this is correct: funeral costs do not cover travel to the funeral - we considered this question concerning air flights for a sibling to come to DP's funeral and it was absolutely not allowed (we would all have agreed to do so, but legally it is not permitted)

Why would they pay? Or OP?
You pay until you run out, and then the state pays.

Extreme frugality that denies a pensioner the basic human connections that people crave at end of life is unethical and potentially elder abuse. You have to balance quality of their life with a budget, you can’t be earmarking everything for physical care and ignore their mental well being or the last things they may want to do or people they want to see before they pass.

What are you on?

Do you have any experience of a parent in care?

I’m on mumsnet rn. Ta.

Why yes I do, among other relatives.

Do tbey facetime with your df? If not:why not? How much time do they really spend with him once they are in country?

I don’t think you should let sentiment overcome sense here. If they really cared they could FaceTime with him regularly.

If there is enough money to pay for 8 years of private residential care for two adults with dementia, that’s a pot of hundreds of thousands of pounds. In reality, £1200 for a flight is not even a week’s worth of care for one person. So I don’t think the argument that it’s drawing significantly from their savings is one that holds much weight.

Sounds like you’ve come to a sensible decision OP, I hope the visit when it happens isn’t too stressful.

The problem is state care will be limited to whichever is the cheapest home that the state thinks will meet the persons needs. And once they are below the £23k figure they are allowed about £30 a week of their own money. The rest of their income - state pensions, private pensions etc will be taken towards their care.

I’m not getting into whether this is right or wrong simply saying that the sooner the money runs out then that’s the point you start to lose control over the major things like where your parent lives.

Your parents have substantial funds but care homes costs are astronomical as you know and increase every year.

If you are in the UK and have Power of Attorney for your parents savings then you need to be very careful. If either of them outlive the funding available or care home costs rise then you may have to apply for top up funding. The bank accounts will be thoroughly examined by your local authority funding team and flight costs will be viewed as a deliberate depreciation of personal funds.

Does the husband actually visit your DF when on these trips or is he really on a free holiday while his wife visits your DF? Does the wife visit her cherished uncle daily and keep in touch while back at home?

I suspect for both of them this has been a bit of a free holiday. Hopefully having to pay some of their airfares and all of the accommodation this time will get them thinking if they both need to come. As your DF really only wants to see his DN not her husband and arguably he doesn’t even know she is visiting rather than her sibling, perhaps this should be the last subsidised visit.

This is very sound advice.
People who are looked after well in care homes can live a long time. Sadly though, dementia does reduce that life expectancy quite a bit. I would offer to pay for one last visit, while your DF can still recognise her. Your DF sounds like an exceptionally lovely and generous man.

You say they see him as a father figure? Would they be expecting a legacy in his will? Because I think you need to discuss that with him and them to avoid awkwardness.

You have my sympathy OP, dementia is so cruel.

"Then the state pays"...... Hmm this is very much oversimplifying things.
The state will want to know where the money went. They can prosecute if they think the money was misused. The state will also choose the cheapest care home to move him to.
Care homes vary massively. He most certainly won't be living in the lap of luxury if the state is paying.

I would pay the airfares and keep the trips going. From what you've said I suspect this is either the last or second last of these trips. They must mean something to your father. Let him enjoy that feeling of gifting the trips, they were clearly important to him, and help keep that connection alive while he is still here. I don't think you are really concerned about the money, they are some unlikely odds.

So you're ok with taking from the pot yourself?

The money needs to go towards their care. The gravy train needs to stop. Full stop.

He probably won’t be living at all. The likelihood of two people of that age in poor enough health to need a care home living another 16 years between them is remote to say the least. Apparently there’s a house in the mix as well. The chances of deprivation of assets being an issue is remote to say the least.

Quite honestly you’re a better person than me OP. I wouldn’t be funding any part of it on my dp’s behalf. They are cf plain and simple. Wouldn’t it be seen as deprivation of capital or similar if the money runs out to pay for care home fees? Is it really as straightforward as being able to use dp’s money for anything you think benefits them?

This is ridiculous. They’ve got savings for 8 years x 2. DF is 92 and in poor health. Potentially a house to sell too.

In any case the state is never going to prosecute a family for using their own money to fund a potentially last visit from a relative!

I think this is an excellent response

I'd offer the funds and but also warn that the trip budget is over. Elderly parents, as we know, can sit in an agonising endgame for a long time.

It sounds like there is absolutely no reason both of them need to come for extended visits.

I'd be worried that when your DP have more crises, they will then start jumping up and down demanding funds for a "last" visit.

If you explain that this is now a one off final payment it puts the onus on them to use it to budget for whatever other visits they might want in the future; which might involve staying for a shorter period or cousin coming on her own.

It also sounds like your DF is much closer to these people than your DM, and it's her funds they're taking up too.

Your DPs giving your son an allowance when you've given up so much financially for them is completely different to them giving it to your cousin's and her husband's holidays.

These days you can stream the funeral if you wish. I found this such a relief, people not having to attend but not excluded.

I wish Mumsnet would bring back the laugh react. Did you read any of OP’s comments here DF has no capacity at all hence why she is trying to decide what to do for the best because there is no point asking her DF when he doesn’t even know what year it is.

She knows what he’s done in the past. That’s what should guide her decision making.

In that case you will have read all the OP's posts, and know she has full poa and that her father has been declared to have no capacity.
So you are projecting, or have poor comprehension, or are being goady.
Or possibly all three.
What you are not being is helpful. Hth.