To not pay their air fare

[rookiemere]

Please if you recognise me don’t out me.

I am an only DC, after a tough year of hard decline from dementia, both DPs are now in a care home close to me. It costs a lot, but thankfully DPs have amassed a lot of savings so I worked out the other day that they can afford it for around 8 years for both of them - they’re 92 and 87 respectively in poor physical health as well, so this should be enough.

The dilemma is this. DF is from another country originally. He is very generous to his nieces my cousins, because their DF died early under unpleasant circumstances. He has offered to pay their fares, 2 of my cousins have declined but one has made it into an annual trip with DPs covering the air fares, bringing along her DH and staying for too long periods at our house. They aren’t ideal house guests so DH put his foot down and said they couldn’t stay for an extended trip again. Accommodation where we live is expensive.

So anyway last night I got an email saying they were thinking of coming over and when would be convenient and what B&B could I recommend. No mention of air fares, so I thought maybe I should say that as the care fees are so expensive DPs can no longer cover the air fare. TBH I don’t think they should even be asking, but I suspect the trip will be unaffordable for them if they have to pay for somewhere to sleep and flights.

I know DF would get some joy from seeing them, and to be fair to my cousin she is very fond of him and he’s almost like a substitute DF in her mind. Technically DPs could afford the flights, but I need to be responsible with their money. I thought I could maybe suggest a contribution of £1k which would help with the fares, but not fully cover them.

DF thinks I shouldn’t mention it and make them ask if they want it. I think that’s coloured by the fact he finds the DH very difficult to get on with and feels they are grabby - as do I to be fair. He says it’s my money, but it’s not at the minute it’s very much still DPs and I am just enacting their wishes.

So AIBU not to offer the money when it’s been paid for in the past ?

Apologies if I respond periodically as going into work shortly.

If it brings your DP's pleasure, then do it. But make sure that you are crystal clear about what is being paid for and what they need for pay for themselves. That way there isn't any confusion when they're here.

Because it’s not their money, they have a duty to use their parents money in accordance with their last known wishes which is that DF has funded his family to visit for many years. Whether they agree with his wishes, it’s not their money to preserve for their own benefit/inheritance.

PoA means you’re responsible for using money in the way its owner would if they still had capacity. Obviously the owner of the money has set a precedent over many years which you should follow @rookiemere. It’s quite unbelievable that you take money for your son but are contemplating going against what have been your dad’s clear wishes.

As you’re saying they have enough money to pay for a combined 16 years worth of care, which at what could be upwards of £50K annually, they are likely to have £800k in savings. Plus the value of the house which I’m guessing hasn’t been sold as you say you want to inherit it? If those assumptions are correct then you’re in Inheritance Tax territory. Paying for flights for your cousins and her family would be considered as deprivation of assets and therefore would need to be included when eventually the second parent dies.
Honestly, I’d get your DPs a decent iPad and let your cousin FaceTime them instead. They don’t want to really see their aunt and uncle, they just want a free holiday.

I think you should pay none of it. You need to keep that money for your parents care, if it runs out you will be the one paying the care home bills

What do they do when the come? Treat it like a holiday and sightsee, go on day trips etc, or just spend time with your parents? The latter I would be more inclined to help out. If they pop in to see parents briefly they use you as a base for holidaying then no.

Paying for flights for your cousins and her family would be considered as deprivation of assets and therefore would need to be included when eventually the second parent dies.

Deprivation of assets doesn’t apply to IHT. The form for it looks at assets and debts at time of death and significant gifts made from capital in the preceding seven years. You’re muddying the waters with irrelevance.

Id personally say you have to be accountable for the money in their accounts for care home fees
As a one off you'd be happy to help cover the cousins airfare but not her DH (after all your father will like to see cousin but not her husband). But it will be the last time you can cover it... id also wait for them to ask you for the money.

Once here how much time does the niece actually spend with your parents ? do they bother the rest of the year keeping in contact ? Do they just visit your parents once or twice then bog off on 'holiday' for the rest of the time ? Really hate to sound cynical but I honestly would be checking parents wills and any codicil's that may have slipped in !!! 🙄

No she won’t. The state takes over when a resident’s money runs out.

I'd stay silent on the money front. Offer nothing. See what happens. Easier said than done, especially when your focus is on DF. But it sounds like he has a good grasp of the situation.

When the money runs out, the state - other taxpayers will be paying the care home bills. This is why “deprivation of assets” exist. I think as your parents need money for care then some of this “nice to do stuff” should probably stop including gifts to your own children. Maybe say that given the funds are needed for care this will be the last trip that will be supported.

PoA includes “nice to do stuff” if the owner of the money has set a precedent. The onus is on the attorney to spend the money in the way that it has been spent in the past, not as the attorney personally wishes.

I totally agree with this.

You can't argue that one thing needs to stop because you need to be careful with the money and then continue letting your son take advantage of their generosity.

They aren't going to ask about the air fare, because it's always been paid for. So if you aren't going to pay it you'll need to let them know.

I would say it's perfectly reasonable to let them know that this will be the last time you're able to do that as money needs to now go on care costs.
But you also need to stop your son's allowance at the same time.

I agree. There is a pattern of spending, so that isn't a problem. What is a problem is that your DP's living costs have soared! and will continue to increase. I would make them aware of this - and suggest as your DP's living and financial circumstances have changed, then the annual visits as previously enjoyed and funded can no longer continue.

Given that your DF would enjoy their visit - I might be willing to have a conversation with them about making some financial contribution to their costs, but that sadly, this is the last time this will be possible. I know you from the Elderly Parents board, and this might be the time gently to suggest that this could be a last visit.

I don't think you should pay anything at all. You are legally obliged to look after that money in the interests of your parents. You don't know realistically how long their finances will last because you don't know how long they will live.

I'd say

"Hi Bertha, so lovely to hear you are wanting to come and see my mum and dad. I have attached details of some B&Bs local to their care homes. Unfortunately, their assets are now all ring-fenced for their care and since they legally no longer have capacity, it is not possible to send any of their money to you for flights or for accommodation. It would be necessary for you to finance the trip yourself. Perhaps if you come on your own it will be more affordable. Do keep me updated regarding your plans since it would be good to meet up if you manage to get over to see them. Otherwise I will of course keep you posted and updated as to how they are doing and we can perhaps arrange a FaceTime call next time I'm with them.

Much love,

Rookiemere"

OK, I'm not in the UK so different rules I guess, either way I don't think she should be using the money for expensive airfares when it should be used for her parents care, tax payers paying the bill is even worse

Perfect response from @Barethe

They've shown they don't respect the gift - even to the point of costing your DP more by delaying the flight booking. Just pull the plug.

Being an attorney has strict legal implications, it is not about compromises. Many people without a friend or relative attorney use a solicitor. It may be useful to ask what a solicitor attorney would decide in this situation.
It is definitely not a question of OP 'looking for a compromise'.

As a (PO) Attorney I've dealt with my parents' finances. Your parents both lack capacity and you MUST act in their best interest, Therefore, you can't pay the cousins' air fares or accommodation, it could be seen as deprivation of assets. You also need to be very careful around the support for their DGS, the rules are incredibly strict.

I have too and was scrupulous about it to the point of meticulous recording of every expenditure. Their solicitor was clear with me that I was responsible for making the same choices about their money that they did when they still had capacity.

I’ve been here for over a decade and still hate the D….s! So twee and unnecessary. But everyone else seems to love it!

OP if your mother and father would get pleasure from the visit, I’d use their money to pay for the flights as usual. I would tell them that it’s quite likely to be the last time they have the trip funded for them as care costs are taking so much of their income. I’d also say that you are exhausted from everything and won’t be able to host them as guests - they must find somewhere else to stay. That way you are being upfront and fair about everything.

Just because something has been done in the past doesn’t necessarily mean it has to continue into the future. People with mental capacity change their spending priorities all the time. Who’s to say that the parents, if they had capacity, might agree that the priority for their funds is now their care first and foremost?

Precedent is one of the guiding principles of PoA. As an attorney you have to constantly ask yourself what decision the owner of the money would make.

I think I would decline to pay bcz of the need to pay CH fees, also this generosity has to stop one day, I'd want to get this awkwardness over with. I don't think the other decision is wrong, though, it's not an easy one.