To not pay their air fare

[rookiemere]

Please if you recognise me don’t out me.

I am an only DC, after a tough year of hard decline from dementia, both DPs are now in a care home close to me. It costs a lot, but thankfully DPs have amassed a lot of savings so I worked out the other day that they can afford it for around 8 years for both of them - they’re 92 and 87 respectively in poor physical health as well, so this should be enough.

The dilemma is this. DF is from another country originally. He is very generous to his nieces my cousins, because their DF died early under unpleasant circumstances. He has offered to pay their fares, 2 of my cousins have declined but one has made it into an annual trip with DPs covering the air fares, bringing along her DH and staying for too long periods at our house. They aren’t ideal house guests so DH put his foot down and said they couldn’t stay for an extended trip again. Accommodation where we live is expensive.

So anyway last night I got an email saying they were thinking of coming over and when would be convenient and what B&B could I recommend. No mention of air fares, so I thought maybe I should say that as the care fees are so expensive DPs can no longer cover the air fare. TBH I don’t think they should even be asking, but I suspect the trip will be unaffordable for them if they have to pay for somewhere to sleep and flights.

I know DF would get some joy from seeing them, and to be fair to my cousin she is very fond of him and he’s almost like a substitute DF in her mind. Technically DPs could afford the flights, but I need to be responsible with their money. I thought I could maybe suggest a contribution of £1k which would help with the fares, but not fully cover them.

DF thinks I shouldn’t mention it and make them ask if they want it. I think that’s coloured by the fact he finds the DH very difficult to get on with and feels they are grabby - as do I to be fair. He says it’s my money, but it’s not at the minute it’s very much still DPs and I am just enacting their wishes.

So AIBU not to offer the money when it’s been paid for in the past ?

Apologies if I respond periodically as going into work shortly.

Exactly so it says it can continue as he ‘normally’ does this.

I would pay this time, it means your father won't feel like like they don't care/haven't made the effort in his last days.

You don’t need to report it, it’s within ‘normal’ gifting rules.

Point One: As a grandparent and great aunt, it would give me great pleasure to support any of the next generation through university.

Point Two: I feel I am living the OP’s dilemma. When my parents were living at their home, they needed support for things like shopping, DIY, sorting out medication, supervision of the carers. My sister and I both live a long distance away and from me it involves a flight. My father covered the travel expenses so that we both were able to go six times a year so they got monthly visits. He was happy to dip into his savings pot. For him it was a necessary expense. It kept Mum and Dad at home which was their wishes. Now my mother is on her own and she has deteriorated such that she now lives in a care home.

The care home fees add up to more than carer visits did. My sister and I are seriously questioning whether we should continue to take the money from her savings when we visit. We still visit as frequently, we just are not so necessary for her safety eg the care home can liaise with GP and pharmacy,

The truth is that should her savings run out she will become state funded. It just does not seem morally right to let her pay for our travel.

So in the case of OP’s cousin, what would I do? If a request for money should come I think I would say something like “Dad loves seeing you and was always willing to pay for your airfare. Now he is in a residential setting his bills are higher. I do not want the money to run out so we need to be careful. Can I suggest £1000 to subsidize some of the airfare?

Also does she FaceTime?

I would pay toward air fares for as long as your father recognises them. It seems unfair to deprive him of the company of someone he loves when he will not be around for much longer. Once he doesn't recognise them, I would stop. It sounds like her DH just uses the whole situation to suit himself and doesn't give a shit who his behaviour offends, I wouldn't give him a penny to go swanning around the place.

Ignore other people. Of course spying his grandson some month each month is different to a nice he sees once a year!

DEAR CF
As you are aware parents are now receiving care which is using up all their funds. However they still love to see you so we can offer £1k towards yoir airfare and a stay here if 2 nights but cannot subsidise food or accommodation or travel beyond that. Looking forward to seeing you

Completely off point but just a thought as your parents are relatively cash rich and it sounds as if your priority is care for them rather than preserving assets. Have you considered a policy which guarantees to pay their care home fees for life. You pay an upfront amount calculated by an actuary based on life expectancy and it gives peace of mind. I know people who have done it and none have lost out.

Those schemes work much better if they’re likely to live a long time. At 92 they could lose out.

Offer a contribution of £1000 but be very clear because of change in circs this is the last airfare being supported.
The main problem is them staying at yours. Tell them categorically they aren't able to stay with you. At all.
It's a rotten situation and you won't be able to do right for doing wrong.

Absolutely. There are HMRC gifting rules that must be followed. The Court of Protection comes down heavily on any errors or mismanagement.

To be fair the cousins haven’t yet asked for the airfares to be covered, only for a list of B and B . I would send them that, say that you are looking forward to seeing them but reminding them that the DP are frail and with dementia so visits will be very much limited to the care home.

The time to mention the airfare is when/if they raise it, at which point you let them know that the carehome fees are taking up huge swathes of the DPs income and assets and that has to be your priority as you don’t know how long they will need to have that security and care provided, so you don’t feel that you have the authority to use the money for airfares.

HMRC gifting rules only apply on gifts made from capital. You can give away as much as you like from income.

What do you think your father would do if he had capacity? Do you think he would recognise them and want to see them? If you think he would want to see them and that if he had capacity he would pay their air fares I think you probably should but just for this one last time
I would tell them your parents are very frail , that they need their savings to pay for their care so this will be the last time they will be able to contribute to the trip.

Based on the fact he has paid for the flights annually I would not be concerned about anyone considering it deprivation of assets but capping it as the normal price on the day you send the confirmation you’ll pay is sensible. Saying that this may be the last time you can pay as you need to see how much money there is makes sense so they can plan accordingly.

No, there are rules on income too.

Ok on a break so a quick response.
I asked DPs a few times about what funeral arrangements they wanted back when they were more aware of things. My friends DM had dictated her funeral exactly the way she wanted before she died and I thought something like that would be lovely. DF said to throw his body on a skip and DM said something non committal. So absolutely no help or on a positive note no expectations on their side.

Most of their friends are dead or infirm. The attendees are likely to be some of the care home staff and my friends - going to DPs funerals seems to be our main social activity these days. Hence why something small, certainly not a ceremony to fly over from the US for.

There have been some good posts about how to word the response and I appreciate those.

I have POA for my DM
I haven't been taking her money to continue to pay for things for the grandchildren...only things she needs .
As far as I was aware,POA is to manage their money responsibly,to try to cover care home fees for as long as possible
Definitely not to pay university fees or air fairs of other family members
Your parents will have a solicitor who will go through all the spending when they die ...I'm not sure how you will explain the university money as trying to cover care home fees for a long time ..my DM also has dementia,she's had it over 10 years ,and had been in a home over 10 years ,her money ran out years ago ,and the council had full access to her bank accounts before agreeing to pay for her care ..
I'm not entirely sure how I could of explained airfare and university fees ,to the council who were about to take over paying £7000 a month for her care ..
I'm not entirely sure ,that you should be taking money out of the pot for these reasons op .
But I'm sure you know what your doing

Meant to say ensure, obviously. The rules around this are very strict, and rightfully so.

Clearly you know nothing about the rules.

Honestly, where is this magic solicitor coming from too?

Nonsense post, except for the bit about the council. They DO care. Sounds like the money will last and the council will never be involved.

From HMRC

^You can make regular payments to another person, for example to help with their living costs. There’s no limit to how much you can give tax free, as long as:

• you can afford the payments after meeting your usual living costs
• you pay from your regular monthly income^

Also

techzone.aberdeenadviser.com/public/iht-est-plan/gifts-out-of-surplus-income