to think some people on here have no idea what 16-18 year olds are actually like?

[Twile]

I’ve noticed that some posters on here seem to have no idea what parenting an older teenager is actually like.

Someone will post about their 16-18 year old being completely out of control - staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

Without fail, there are replies saying things like:

“Just stop them going.”
“Take their phone off them.”
“Ground them.”
“You’re the parent - just say no.”
“I’d never allow that”

It makes me wonder whether these people have actually parented an older teen.

A 16-18-year-old is not the same as a 10-year-old. They’re often physically bigger than you, legally have increasing autonomy, can leave the house if they choose, earn their own money and in many cases simply refuse to comply. You can’t physically force them to stay indoors, attend college, end a relationship or make sensible choices. And nor should you.

Of course boundaries still matter, and parenting doesn’t stop at 16. But the strategies change. You’re often relying on influence rather than control, and sometimes you’re choosing the least bad option rather than the ideal one.

I have in no way presented this as a model for anyone else, merely a description of what I do. That said, there are sensible tech hygiene stuff that likely we should all follow (said the sleepless middle aged woman on her phone in bed🙄). Two diagnosed, but likely three of my children are ND and my eldest was extremely challenging as she was undiagnosed and unmedicated for ADHD and it was a hellscape for a while. She made a LOT of noise and has incredible regret now about how she treated us because it was awful. But my point is I do stand firm, I do not waver. I will admit if I have made a mistake but I work from a position of strength and from the place of being the person that loves them the most. It is interesting talking to my oldest DD now and she is able to reflect on her teenage behaviour and she too thanks me for just standing firm. Vis a vis the internet, of course it should go off and noone here gives a shit enough to walk out or do anything dramatic. I do think in the not too distant future we will be amazed that we let our children have unfettered access to the Internet. And FYi,.every one of my children has smoked or vaped at some point... My eldest does still vapes (has her own home etc) but I have sanctioned the younger ones when they've got busted... (They have all grassed one another up as it's happening so I know it hasn't been restarted because they would do the same again). We aren't perfect, I'm just not taking any shit because for the most part, I know best and act only from a place of love but I don't need them to like me. So don't be all, 'good for you' snarky, I am just explaining how I do it and not prescribing it for anyone but me because it works in my family. As for running away because a phone and Internet was stopped... I cannot do that because they don't have it anyway... I have removed a phone from an older teen here because he said something truly awful on a chat thing, I had warned him before and he did it again and I confiscated it. I'm went to his school website, printed out his timetable and he took it, he knew he was wrong and it was gone for week and he sulked but he accepted it. If he had run away I would be terrified of course, but I wouldn't give the phone back. That's a who blinks first thing and a carte blanche if you back down. Yea it is different than when they're small undoubtedly but I'll be fucked if they can punish me for punishing them...

I think you’ve answered your own question.

You say you’ve never known an out-of-control teenager and that it blows your mind behaviour could get to that stage. That’s exactly why I think some advice on these threads misses the mark. If you’ve never experienced it, it’s easy to assume there must have been something the parent did or didn’t do.
For many families, taking away a phone, car or internet works. That’s great. But it doesn’t follow that it works for every older teenager.

You ask, “How would they stop me?” The answer is that some wouldn’t. Others would simply leave, refuse to hand things over, buy another phone, stay with friends, or escalate the conflict. That doesn’t make them typical, but they’re not rare either.

As for the idea that they can’t afford to leave home, many know they can’t. That doesn’t stop some from walking out anyway. Teenagers don’t always make decisions based on long-term financial logic. Some will happily sleep on a friend’s sofa, move between houses, or accept a much lower standard of living rather than comply with rules they reject.

I’m not saying parents shouldn’t have boundaries. I’m saying that once a relationship has broken down to that extent, “just take everything away” is often far easier to say than to implement successfully.

Your family sounds functional, respectful and cooperative. That’s genuinely a good thing. But it isn’t the reality every parent who posts on those threads is dealing with.

Ok, @Twile, you put forward that
some parents that give some forms of advice on MN do not have any idea and you put forward some reasons that older teenagers are beyond the influence of parents.

Do you think there are the many other causes for this? Do you think it is just down to personalities?

Obviously phones, the internet, SM, working parents and lack of extended family involvement to give just a few reasons are integral, but I do feel that we do have a parenting problem also.

Am I blaming parents? Yes some I am. And I think on threads like this, we skirt around causes and issues because we try to be seen to not bash and blame, but some of it is down to parenting.

Just see the number of threads about adults that have NC with parents. Threads that PPs describe narcissistic parents, about abuse and DV.

I think the problem starts in the home and is
not a result of the seemingly useless advice some parents give on MN, which yes can be annoying, but doesn’t address the problem of why some older teenagers are behaving in this way. And is not down to a perceived smugness or naivety of parents whose children are not like this.

And as many PPs are saying it isn’t all older teenagers. And the PPs that are saying it are not necessarily as you and some other PPs have said on here, parents of younger children. Why would a parent of a 7 year old profess to have knowledge and experience of bringing up a 16/17 year old.

Look at the figures for non school attendance, young children going into reception that are not ready for school, lack of discipline and so
much more that we see today.

MN covers a broad demographic, yes there are clusters of opinions and some advice is best suited on certain topics and not on others, but we all have a voice and as a result we are exposed to such a wide range of perspectives. Take from it what you will and discard the rest.

Consistent parenting can absolutely help children learn boundaries and respect. I don’t think many people would disagree with that. But it doesn’t follow that every family with an older teen who is struggling must have been inconsistent when they were younger.

Children aren’t blank slates who all respond identically to the same parenting. Temperament, neurodevelopment, mental health, peer groups, trauma, relationships and countless other factors all influence how they behave as teenagers.

You mention one mum who admits she wasn’t consistent. That’s one family. There are also plenty of parents who have been loving, consistent and clear with boundaries for years, yet still find themselves with a teenager who is making risky choices or rejecting rules.

I think it’s unfair to imply that if your approach worked, anyone whose teenager is now out of control simply didn’t parent well enough. Life and teenagers, are far more complicated than that.

I think the peer group has a lot to do with it. I know one family with a child who never put a foot wrong. Dream teenager. Sibling was creative and was 'staying the night with friends', where all sorts of things were got up to.

I know at least two families with 5-6 children. All were great as teens but both families had issues with just one of the children.

Parents can only do so much.

I don’t think we’re actually that far apart.

Of course parenting plays a role. It would be absurd to claim otherwise. There are parents who are inconsistent, neglectful, abusive, overly permissive or who simply don’t set boundaries. Those children can and do suffer as a result.
Where I disagree is with the assumption that if a 16 or 17 year old is behaving dangerously or refusing to accept boundaries, the explanation is probably poor parenting. That simply isn’t supported by reality.

There are teenagers with loving, consistent parents who still develop significant mental health problems, become involved in drugs, abusive relationships, criminality or simply reject their parents’ values. Equally, there are children from chaotic homes who become responsible adults.

Human behaviour is far more complex than a straight line from parenting to outcome.

My thread wasn’t about finding the causes of difficult teenage behaviour. It was about the quality of advice given to parents who are already living it.

When someone says, “My 17 year old won’t come home,” replying, “Just don’t let them go,” isn’t really engaging with the reality of the situation. Whether the problem arose through parenting, personality, trauma, peers, neurodiversity, mental illness or something else, that advice is unlikely to help.

I also agree that Mumsnet contains a huge range of opinions, and people should take what is useful and ignore the rest. But I do think we could show a little more humility. None of us knows the full history of the family posting, yet some replies confidently assume the solution is obvious or that the parent simply hasn’t tried the most basic things.

That’s the attitude I was challenging not the idea that parenting matters.

Very true. If they get in with the wrong crowd there is little that can be done. My teen is very into sports, spends a lot of time with similar sporty kids who are mainly into clean living and competing. That makes a huge difference.

I know what you mean OP. The one that winds me up the most is when a poster says smugly, "Actions have consequences."

Exactly, so it doesn’t matter a jot that their parents happen to be Indian 🤷‍♀️