to think some people on here have no idea what 16-18 year olds are actually like?

[Twile]

I’ve noticed that some posters on here seem to have no idea what parenting an older teenager is actually like.

Someone will post about their 16-18 year old being completely out of control - staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

Without fail, there are replies saying things like:

“Just stop them going.”
“Take their phone off them.”
“Ground them.”
“You’re the parent - just say no.”
“I’d never allow that”

It makes me wonder whether these people have actually parented an older teen.

A 16-18-year-old is not the same as a 10-year-old. They’re often physically bigger than you, legally have increasing autonomy, can leave the house if they choose, earn their own money and in many cases simply refuse to comply. You can’t physically force them to stay indoors, attend college, end a relationship or make sensible choices. And nor should you.

Of course boundaries still matter, and parenting doesn’t stop at 16. But the strategies change. You’re often relying on influence rather than control, and sometimes you’re choosing the least bad option rather than the ideal one.

YANBU.

It also always makes me roll my eyes when people say 'just kick them out' or 'stop solving their problems for them and make them stand on their own two feet. They aren't babies any more.' 'Time for them to leave home and make their own way in the world.' Or the other one I love is 'you should be taking much more money off them in housekeeping than that. They are spoilt, with no responsibilities' At the same time as wondering why young people now can't seem to earn enough and save up enough to move out. 😂

These are people who only have four year olds so far. They have no idea what's coming to them. They can't imagine what parenting a late teen is going to be like. It seems like such a long way off to them and these 'kids' seem so enormous that they don't imagine that when their children are that age and size they will still worry about them, still want to support and guide them, still need to hold their hands and go a bit easy on them when they make stupid choices and mistakes. Even if they sorely test our patience, turn our hair grey and turn us to the bottle we don't all just throw our children out onto the street to fend for themselves the second they turn 18.

That’s a pretty poor argument.

The difference is that I’m not claiming all 16-18-year-olds are the same. I’m saying it’s unrealistic to assume you can simply “stop” an older teenager doing something, as though they’re still 10 years old.

The advice I’m talking about isn’t “this worked for my 17-year-old.” It’s people confidently telling struggling parents to “just don’t let them go”, “take their phone”, or “ground them”, as if that’s universally possible.

Many older teenagers are taller, stronger, legally far more independent and perfectly capable of walking out of the house if they choose. That’s reality. Pretending every parent has the same level of control they had over a primary school child isn’t helpful.

So no, this isn’t me extrapolating from a handful of teenagers. It’s pointing out that parenting changes as children get older, and advice needs to reflect that rather than assuming every problem can be solved by saying, “Just parent them.”

Some of us actively are at that parenting stage and do not remotely relate to the version of parenting often described on this site.

Yes I'm afraid I run what I refer to as a 'benign dictatorship ' here... Internet does go off, no phones in rooms, no TVs and gaming in rooms... It's absolutely ok to say no to them if it doesn't not fit in with what we are doing... You can have a lift if we can do it and arrange a bus otherwise... We do compromise but ultimately, there are rules. They are all nice people... I've managed to get two more to adulthood and still had rules... My sons are almost 18, almost 16 and 14 and I am in charge here.. Happy to talk anything through but ultimately what I decide is the bottom line. It really hasn't been that much of a problem because I think they and we, their parents, are reasonable people.

THATS THE POINT OF THE THREAD!

If your kids dont act like that then why give advise to parents whose kids do?

That’s lovely for you but it completely proves my point.

Your rules work because your teenagers are reasonable, cooperative and willing to accept them. That is not the same as saying those rules would work in every household with every 16-18-year-old.

You can switch off the internet but you cannot physically stop an older teenager leaving the house, buying another phone, staying elsewhere or simply refusing to comply. The fact that your children have not seriously challenged your authority does not mean every parent dealing with a difficult, vulnerable or highly oppositional older teen has simply failed to be “in charge”.

Calling your home a “benign dictatorship” is easy when everyone broadly agrees to the dictatorship. It is not evidence that parents facing far more complex situations could solve them by being firmer.

You have reasonable teenagers and a system that works for your family. Good for you. But presenting that as proof that other parents can simply impose the same control is exactly the smug, simplistic attitude I was talking about.

Someone who posts, “my teen stays out until all hours and I don’t know what to do,” has not necessarily stated that their teen is veering towards juvenile delinquent. When every teen you know in real life would respond to a simple demand to stay home or at the very least the removal of the cell phone, why wouldn’t the first thought be that the parent did not do those things?

I particularly enjoy the “but he’s an adult” comments when someone asks a question about their newly 18 year old. Sure, yes, legally an adult blah blah… but sometimes that hapless teenager hasn’t matured one bit the day they turn 18. They’re still at school, still living with you, still acting like a six foot toddler at times, but any mistakes they make could now have lifelong repercussions.

Mine have turned out ok after minor bumpy rides at times, but I have friends who’ve parented pretty strictly with high expectations whose kids have fallen in with the wrong crowd and pushed dangerous boundaries. If they’ve been conditioned to be a parent-pleaser, they may well go along with whatever makes them popular when it comes to alcohol, drugs, sex, driving, and taking risks.

Bigger kids, bigger problems.

Your rules work because your teenagers are reasonable, cooperative and willing to accept them. That is not the same as saying those rules would work in every household with every 16-18-year-old.
You can switch off the internet but you cannot physically stop an older teenager leaving the house, buying another phone, staying elsewhere or simply refusing to comply. The fact that your children have not seriously challenged your authority does not mean every parent dealing with a difficult, vulnerable or highly oppositional older teen has simply failed to be “in charge”.

Exactly. My 16 yo once behaved very badly. We punished him by removing his phone and removing the internet access in his room. He punished us back by running away in the middle of the night.

I went into his room to wake him for school the next morning and he wasn't there. Can you imagine what that felt like? We lived rurally as well so it's not as if he could easily just wander off down the street for an hour then wander back again. He was found pretty quickly, but that's when I realised what we were up against. It's a very different ball game to parenting a young child.

I don’t agree. I was a 16 year old who was constantly grounded and trying to run away from home - completely off the rails staying out all night doing drugs etc. If a teen’s living at home and doesn’t have their own money, there’s leverage for consequences.

Because “every teen you know” is still only the teens you know, and assuming that a parent has not tried the most obvious response is both patronising and unrealistic.

A parent saying, “My teen stays out until all hours and I don’t know what to do,” does not mean they have never told them to stay home, imposed consequences or removed privileges. It usually means those things have not worked or have created a different and potentially more serious problem.

Removing a phone is not a magic reset button. Some older teens will hand it over and comply. Others will refuse, leave anyway, use another device, stay with friends or escalate the situation. They do not need to be “veering towards juvenile delinquency” to be beyond the point where a simple demand guarantees obedience.

The first thought should not automatically be that the parent is too foolish or weak to have tried the obvious. It could simply be that their teenager is not like the compliant teenagers in your own circle. That lack of imagination is exactly the issue.

Also, some parents on here really do say that they don’t have the right to dictate rules with older teens.

While boundaries do need to be loosened, that should go hand in hand with earned trust. A responsible young adult can be treated as such. Someone who makes poor choices needs less freedom.

Your own example shows that consequences and leverage do not necessarily produce compliance. You were grounded and still stayed out all night, took drugs and tried to run away.

Yes parents can remove money, lifts, phones and other privileges. Nobody is saying there should be no consequences. The point is that consequences are not the same as control, especially with an older teenager who is prepared to ignore them.

A parent may have leverage over what happens inside their home, but they cannot physically make a determined 16 or 17 year old stay there. They also have to weigh up whether removing a phone, money or access to transport makes the situation safer or simply pushes the teen further away and makes them harder to locate.

So yes, there can be consequences. But “they live under my roof, therefore I can stop them” is still far too simplistic. Your own teenage behaviour is evidence of that.

Some of the advice also seems to under estimate teens and view them as much younger than they are. 16-18 year olds are very capable. Sometimes I laugh a bit at the advice remembering that I was married and running a household at 18. Yet, somehow, the 18 year old in the thread can't possibly be expected to do some simple independent activity, like take themselves from A to B.

The issue is the assumption that setting a rule means an older teen will obey it.

Boundaries, consequences and earned trust all matter. But “less freedom” is not always something a parent can simply impose in practice. You can withdraw money, lifts, Wi-Fi and privileges but you cannot guarantee that a determined older teen will stay home, hand over a phone or stop seeing someone.

There is also a difference between saying, “This is the rule in my home,” and believing you can dictate every choice an older teen makes outside it.

So yes, responsible behaviour should lead to more freedom and poor choices should have consequences. But that still does not make parenting an older teen as simple as “just say no” or “don’t let them.”

Yes, you are right. My only child is now going on 47 but I remember his teenage years very well indeed, I also remember my own. :-)

Great fun at times.......

you can try to be as sweetly passive aggressive as you like, but it doesn't make my point untrue.

The difference is that I’m not claiming all 16-18-year-olds are the same. I’m saying it’s unrealistic to assume you can simply “stop” an older teenager doing something, as though they’re still 10 years old

it's unrealistic to assume you can stop ALL older teenagers you mean?
What make you think other parents have no authority on their own teen?

You struggling to impose discipline doesn't mean every other parent is struggling too.

Pretty much all of my family and friends run the same kind of benign dictatorship. It works because these expectations of respect and good behaviour have been in place since the children could first walk and talk.

They accept it because that is all they have ever known. It becomes part of who they are. The rules, which adjust as they age, help them feel secure and mean home is always a safe and predictable retreat.

There is one family who are having trouble, but the mum admits she was not consistent when they were little and cute, it was easier to give in and let thinhs go, and is sadly paying for it now.

The joys of rural living - if my kids wanted to walk out they’d have nowhere to go to except a 30 minute walk to the neighbouring farm and I don’t think that option appeals to them!

In all seriousness though, it doesn’t matter if my kids are physically bigger than me, in my family none of us ever use physical strength to control anyone so it’s irrelevant.

I don’t give advice on the threads that ask for it because I have none to give, it blows my mind that behaviour can get to this stage at all and so obviously I wouldn’t know how to deal with it. I don’t know anyone with the sort of out-of-control teens you describe irl. Which makes me wonder what has happened (or not happened) to get to this point, it certainly doesn’t seem typical to me.

Obviously if a teenager really does want to walk out they will but surely it’s a pretty short sighted strategy? Most 16/17 year olds are going to be earning peanuts from their part-time jobs, they can’t afford to rent a place on their own, any friends they might be freeloading off will soon want them out. My kid’s comfortable lives are entirely dependent on me and DH and I think they are sensible enough to realise this without finding out the hard way. If I wanted to remove their phones or cars or deny them internet access (all of which I pay for) then I absolutely could do that! How would they stop me? They can have all the freedom they want when they earn a proper wage and pay their way in life.

I grew up in the 21st century! It's legal in England still (and from what I checked we're still in the 21st century). I'm not saying children should be beaten senseless. But the discipline I got (from a very young age) has led me to not to go off the rails to this extreme. I had no interest in alcohol till sixth form. It had never been introduced to me. I only started because I was surprised that everyone else was doing it and I wanted to fit in. I did experiment with it because I wanted to know what it was like to be "wasted". It was fun at time but would make me an emotional mess at uni. So no longer have any interest. Have never vaped or smoked or snuck out. Never done class A drugs even though "we all did it when young".

When I was 18 I did try and do a very "this is my life my decision, and I don't care what you think" kind of thing and yeah it didn't work out and I had to change it.

How many times do you read "pick your battles" when it's about raising a teen, to justify giving up on imposing something you believe in ?

Some of us do not "pick our battle". If some parents want to let their kids get away with a lot because they can't be bothered to be consistent, it's up to them.
Others think differently.

Just don't come back later complaining that they don't listen because they are used to get away with everything anyway.

What a pointless comment. If you don't find the topic interesting, move on. As for it not "needing" a thread, what does? There doesn't need to be a thread on any topic. And they're unlimited - it's not like OP took the last potatoes when she wasn't even hungry. If you want to start another thread, start one!

OP - I often think about this when we get those threads complaining about non-parents being on Mumsnet. If a thread is about a teenager, someone who has been one is surely equally as qualified to advise as the parent of two under-fives? Parenthood alone doesn't make them experts!

Perhaps their parents didn't discipline them enough

So many examples of teenagers rebelling against strict parenting (especially when it's cultural/religious as well). The most famous porn star in the world Rocco Siffredi came from a super religious family who wanted him to become a priest. Many similar examples