The realisation my marriage is not going to be forever

[Mistymeg]

That’s it. I don’t see a lifetime of this. I also worry there is no smoking gun here. On paper he’s the perfect husband and Dad, gets up with the kids almost every morning, gets them ready for the nursery and drops them so I can get ready and commute, he also then goes into the office most days too, he dotes on them, he’s a good cook and does most of the cooking and bbqing, no controlling behaviour and keeps a lot of the house going really. I do my share, I definitely do, we have our roles and just like finances it’s pretty much 50/50, if anything I feel he’s a bit put out recently that my career is flying but he seems to cope better with the pressure of two toddlers, full time job and daily stress than I do, so everything has a cost.

That said, the spark has long gone. Way before the better jobs and recent pressures.

I’m so lonely. He barely looks at me or acknowledges me. I don’t look forward to being around him, the thought of dinner with him sounds dull to me and when he was due to be out last night and came home, I was disappointed.

Everyday I came home this week I asked how his day was, he’d answer and not ask me back. I made a point of it stating that he wasn’t making conversation back, and he claimed he had asked me but he hadn’t, I asked what I replied and he pulled from something else.

Tonight I switched tact and didn’t bother asking him how his day was. We had the usual transactional conversations about food and kids, admin, tv and pretty much sat in silence. It got to 9pm and I said it’s strange that despite me making a point of him not asking me about me day all week, tonight I didn’t ask him and he still hasn’t asked. As usual he gaslit me - it’s because I’d snapped at him earlier (apparently), then he said the amount of nights I’m on my phone… all my fault. Not that he could be better at that. I had a huge presentation at work this week and he didn’t wish me luck, message me in day or ask anything when he came home yesterday.

We have no spark, no sexual chemistry- I don’t enjoy sex with him, it’s just a tick box exercise to say we do it once a month but I’d say it’s more like 8 times a year. We do have two young kids and both work full time but honestly, we just WhatsApp back and forth mostly for communication. It’s all admin. I don’t enjoy time with him. He doesn’t like people who speak too much, doesn’t like stories, takes the mick out of people who tell boring stories. If I tell a story even if just about my day he zones out. Sometimes I will just open my mouth and he will huff before I’ve said anything.

I keep thinking when the kids are older it will get better but actually, I just don’t know if it will.

anyone else been here? We’ve been married 10 years and I’m not quite 40 yet so thinking it’s a long life ahead. That said I don’t want to share the kids, I don’t want to deal with the finance fall out, definitely don’t want to be dating again……. He is not open to marriage counselling but also comes from a strict catholic family so wouldn’t divorce either.

Even before we were married I noticed he wasn’t a team with me, even in front of his own family he’d be wanting to show off and the centre of attention and not think about me. He’s not like that generally but weirdly feels he has to impress his parents, they have a weird dynamic. He’s almost nervous in front of them…. It stretches further than that though, in group settings I had to tell him to stop making the butt of all his jokes. It might have been funny once or twice but everytime we went out he’d be bantering at my expense. It’s almost like if he wasn’t doing that he wouldn’t know how to interact with me in public. In general I’ve found he’s never had my back and will take the side of anyone or anything else. His response? You don’t need me to stick up for you, you’re strong enough.

honestly I wonder if an open relationship later down the line is an option. Something has to change.

When we are out with other parents I notice how affectionate they are subtly with one another, supportive and a team. It makes me think it’s not he ages of the kids. Has anyone been in a similar boat?

I was similar to you some years ago. However I took the approach that I had different needs to
my husband, I needed to chat more, which in my experience, women often do. I nurtured my female friends more, I had a hobby where I spent time with other women and also started a book club. I had the attitude that I shouldn’t expect H to meet all my needs. I also had counseling, which surprised me by making me happier. I didn’t discuss my relationship with H, but the counseling made me feel that I had a part in our relationship difficulties that I hadn’t been aware of. When I became happier, the fact that he didn’t listen to me properly stopped bothering me, I now joke about it, or might tackle it head on, calmly at the time. Our kids have grown now and we have a happy, good relationship (with problems and arguments at times). My interest in having sex with him also improved too.

Have the big conversation, try therapy and if not - move on.

Outside of family, work normal day to day stuff, do you have any hobbies, interests or talents you might take up or resurrect, just for yourself Mistymeg 🙂?

OP, you are clearly both pretty unhappy. His way of showing it is to freeze you out. Your way is to try and engage him. Neither way is working.

In a long marriage, it is very easy to lose sight of eachother's needs because you get caught up in the needs of your children, your work, keeping the house ticking over. Everyone in a long marriage has probably had some periods of time like this. I know I have, and am struggling with one right now.

But it is easy to get caught up in giving all your attention to what is going wrong, and dismissing what is going right. And that fuels your disappointment.

I suggest trying some different approaches. You say he shows love by doing things for you. Just start to notice and appreciate them. Maybe do some things for him too. E.g. Buy him a treat and leave it on the kitchen table with a post-it note, saying: thank you for doing the laundry when I was knackered yesterday. Don't do it in expectation of some miraculous loving reaction from him, just do it because you are choosing to show love rather than resentment for a few months, to see if that shifts anything.

If he hates people's stories, why not go out together and do something that doesn't involve talking much, once a week, rather than couples' dinners. Book a babysitter and go to a gig or a film or if you had a shared physical interest when you were first together, do that again: get your bikes out, or go for an evening walk. Don't put pressure on these dates to be amazing and instantly rekindle anything. Just get into the habit of doing things together, so you build some shared experiences that are not focused on raising children and coping with everyday life.

Meanwhile, make a mental (or actual) list of all the way you need to be treated in order to thrive and see if you can find other people to provide some. Good friends for fun conversations and emotional support. See them regularly, without partners. Maybe a therapist or counsellor too. A work mentor perhaps, to discuss and celebrate career achievements. Realising you don't have to rely on him for all the support you need and want will be liberating, especially if he is not wired to offer it easily and often.

No advice about sex, except that if you start to develop good habits of going out once a week and doing fun things together, some things that remind you of why you fell in love in the first place, and some new things that give you energy and hope for the present and the future, then the sex might improve.

Uncanny! Personal question but how is intimacy your side? I feel less alone and lonely just for reading this. I feel so lonely because I can see very clearly other couples we know who are tactile, the husbands praising their wives and they have children the same age as ours. I feel lonely as no one else has this relationship where they don’t even acknowledge one another or they’re at the same kids party.

is your DH sociable with other people? Mine claims to have social anxiety (which is a new revelation) and claims to be introverted. He certainly wasn’t when I met him and he has no problem talking to other people. I remember vividly arguing on the way to a family gathering once, yet again, me saying I’m lonely and he won’t talk to me, when we arrived he was locked into a conversation with his BIL chatting non stop for 30 min. As long as he’s being jovial, having short sentence conversation and joking around he’s happy…. One of our parent friends, both the Mum and Dad tell stories and he won’t meet them for dinner now, as he only likes going out for a laugh (my expense is fine).

Being good with the kids doesn't mean he is a good partner. Some people who are bad partners draw the line at being nasty to kids, I think it's something to do with ego, they want to be seen as a heroic parent.

Gaslighting: psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator.

I'm not saying you couldn't be bothered. I'm saying your DH can't be bothered chatting with you, and is lying to get out of it.

So what are his bad points really?
He does the child care - their early mornings, he cooks and cleans mostly too. He has a well paid full time job but he doesn't give you enough attention/praise and is sometimes a bit nasty?
And you think you should stay with him because he will inherit well eventually but you will not? Also you have a good shares/savings portfolio you don't want to lose half if you divorce ?
At least he doesn't beat you up. come home drunk or have an affair - so could be worse!
And if you leave - will you ever find a new perfect man? Or could you live alone - when no one will be there to give you ant attention?

Ugh! Of course it should end. Its not a good relationship.

The OP is describing mire than the blues and this is not just the result of monotony. Her husband actively dislikes her, parades his boredom privately and publicly makes fun of her and uses her as a punching bag.

Read the books by the Gottmans and recognize that he displays contempt for OP. This can’t be overcome with therapy or careful stroking or coaxing. He doesn’t care about her snd she would like, not surprisingly, to be with someone who loves her.

I voted YABU but mainly to say what others have said, I think marriages need nurturing and there are dry spells. Some people are lucky to just be loved up all the time, but for most I think marriage, kids and general life can be tedious and I think most people need to put a bit of effort in to maintain a relationship. Life gets in the way and little resentments can build.
I think you need to spend more one on one time, have a conversation about your sex life and try to spice up with a bit more open communication.
if he knew you were thinking about leaving he might up his game relationship wise.
You said there was an initial spark, so there is hope, it sounds like he could be feeling the same.
I think you should try to make it better for a while and he might reciprocate.
if not you know you tried.
I would start by doing some nice things first him, trying to be a bit more light hearted and initiating intimacy but maybe plan a date and have a chat about how you want to make things better.
i wouldn’t make it sound like a complaint but more like you want to improve things for you both.

I have been married 20 years and think it’s normal to have ups and downs, most of the time you come out stronger and happier because you have worked through it together

Your description of him started off “good egg” but honestly, by the end of the post he didn’t sound like a “good egg” at all. Sure, he’ll look after his kids and do some housework, that’s pretty basic stuff expected of an adult. But he seems to treat you with distain and has no interest in you whatsoever, not even as a friend. That’s not a good egg, that’s a bit of an asshole to be honest. I’m not surprised you want to leave him. This isn’t a relationship, it’s barely even housemates.

So the bar is

• a drunk
• a philanderer
• a domestic abuser

Got it.

”You don’t need me to stick up for you. You’re strong enough. “
This is what stood out for me. Sounds like he resent you or feels you are somehow better than him. That would explain him making you the butt of his jokes and trying to impress your parents. Maybe because your career has taken off. Sounds like you’re working to improve things, trying to make a conversation which suggests you are the stronger of the two of you and he might find that intimidating, thus huffing when you speak.

My mistake – it’s his own parents he tries to impress. Sees you as a threat, I think. I also noticed that you said that he said you don’t need praise. There’s a lot of resentment there.

It sounds to me that he has put up a huge barrier around himself.
He is functioning on a “needs must” level but anything aside from that he just can’t cope with.
And this is not your fault
If he won’t talk to you or listen to you
If he won’t consider counselling either together or individually then it seems there’s not an awful lot you can do to fix this … because it is broken and his walls seem pretty impenetrable.
Perhaps writing it all down for him to read, re-read, consider, digest and hopefully discuss may be a way forward? Your OP would work well with a few additions from your subsequent posts?
Offer to try anything to “get it back”and if that doesn’t work then you will know you tried.

Very wise advice throughout. Thank you

He sounds absolutely fucking miserable to be around and he doesn't seem to even like you.

Yeah I'd be looking to get out. Tell him you want a divorce. If he doesn't, then he'll need to figure out how he can stop being such a miserable and unkind person. If he's not even prepared to try, then what else is there to do?

I mean, you could, as many many pp have suggested, suck it up, make compromises, cope with being lonely and disrespected indefinitely in the hope that one day he'll start being nice to you again. I don't think I'd have the patience for that. Life is short and you never know what's around the corner.

If he's that devout a Catholic then he needs reminding that marriage is a sacrament and should be respected as such. Annulments are also a thing if he's so worried about divorce!

Zero regrets, and there was nothing he could do, you don't need a specific reason for divorce anymore in England, it just has to have irrevocably broken down. Much happier and feeling like myself again, I've just realised that we had completely grown apart and didn't have anything in common anymore, I don't believe it was a relationship that was meant to last a lifetime, it was good at the start, but honestly we should have taken stock before we had kids to see if we were still right for eachother, which we weren't

Tell him it’s counselling or divorce, tell yourself it’s counselling then divorce. Either way you both need that process.

I don’t know if he’s that good an egg. He’s a bit of a dick to his wife. The gaslighting, the refusal to listen or engage, unable to provide minimum courtesy like asking how your day was, making you the butt of his jokes. Is he ever nice to you??

a reminder that he doesn’t get to choose to not get divorced on his own.

When we are out with other parents I notice how affectionate they are subtly with one another, supportive and a team.

I know that feeling. I think you are absolutely right that this is not forever and that you should be making plans to build your own life.

Thank you for all your replies. I will reply to a few I’ve not been able to just yet. The advice has been helpful and constructive, also mixed. Many saying cut your losses now, others stating this needs time and effort before any rash decisions and some saying stick it out long term as it’s worked for them. I’ve not had a calm conversation but I will and I will address my own shortcomings too. There is resentment on both sides.

When I first married, I was introduced to one of his friends, who said, it’s all roses now. Tell me in 10 years what it’s like.
And she was right. I was ready to get out, though that took another 10 years.

I came to the conclusion that, watching other couples, that getting out should be compulsory at ten years..a free dissolution ..the marriage licence expires . Remarry if you want to. I bet most don’t want to.

Sounds like you were love bombed by a misogynist. And now he has you, he can stop pretending.

If you want to end it, the sooner the better or you’ll have even more saved up/ invested he can get half of. IMO
Or you can just ignore him back…grey rock. Live your life , make friends to socialise with , sleep in another room . Tell him, you aren’t going through the motions with someone who dislikes you. Be housemates.
Not a great example to children, either what you’re doing now , or staying as housemates. But you can’t go on as you are..I know how miserable that is.

Divorce is hard on kids and finances, and he doesn't sound like the easiest person to co-parent with. However, it's hard to fix something when he won't even talk to you about the most basic of relationship expectations.

But you're married and have small children, so I would be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it before giving up. I liked @CypressMoon's post. Somehow if you can get through to him how close he is to losing his wife permanently he might pay attention.

I'm sorry, you are so young, it's not right that you feel so lonely and in despair.