The realisation my marriage is not going to be forever

[Mistymeg]

That’s it. I don’t see a lifetime of this. I also worry there is no smoking gun here. On paper he’s the perfect husband and Dad, gets up with the kids almost every morning, gets them ready for the nursery and drops them so I can get ready and commute, he also then goes into the office most days too, he dotes on them, he’s a good cook and does most of the cooking and bbqing, no controlling behaviour and keeps a lot of the house going really. I do my share, I definitely do, we have our roles and just like finances it’s pretty much 50/50, if anything I feel he’s a bit put out recently that my career is flying but he seems to cope better with the pressure of two toddlers, full time job and daily stress than I do, so everything has a cost.

That said, the spark has long gone. Way before the better jobs and recent pressures.

I’m so lonely. He barely looks at me or acknowledges me. I don’t look forward to being around him, the thought of dinner with him sounds dull to me and when he was due to be out last night and came home, I was disappointed.

Everyday I came home this week I asked how his day was, he’d answer and not ask me back. I made a point of it stating that he wasn’t making conversation back, and he claimed he had asked me but he hadn’t, I asked what I replied and he pulled from something else.

Tonight I switched tact and didn’t bother asking him how his day was. We had the usual transactional conversations about food and kids, admin, tv and pretty much sat in silence. It got to 9pm and I said it’s strange that despite me making a point of him not asking me about me day all week, tonight I didn’t ask him and he still hasn’t asked. As usual he gaslit me - it’s because I’d snapped at him earlier (apparently), then he said the amount of nights I’m on my phone… all my fault. Not that he could be better at that. I had a huge presentation at work this week and he didn’t wish me luck, message me in day or ask anything when he came home yesterday.

We have no spark, no sexual chemistry- I don’t enjoy sex with him, it’s just a tick box exercise to say we do it once a month but I’d say it’s more like 8 times a year. We do have two young kids and both work full time but honestly, we just WhatsApp back and forth mostly for communication. It’s all admin. I don’t enjoy time with him. He doesn’t like people who speak too much, doesn’t like stories, takes the mick out of people who tell boring stories. If I tell a story even if just about my day he zones out. Sometimes I will just open my mouth and he will huff before I’ve said anything.

I keep thinking when the kids are older it will get better but actually, I just don’t know if it will.

anyone else been here? We’ve been married 10 years and I’m not quite 40 yet so thinking it’s a long life ahead. That said I don’t want to share the kids, I don’t want to deal with the finance fall out, definitely don’t want to be dating again……. He is not open to marriage counselling but also comes from a strict catholic family so wouldn’t divorce either.

Even before we were married I noticed he wasn’t a team with me, even in front of his own family he’d be wanting to show off and the centre of attention and not think about me. He’s not like that generally but weirdly feels he has to impress his parents, they have a weird dynamic. He’s almost nervous in front of them…. It stretches further than that though, in group settings I had to tell him to stop making the butt of all his jokes. It might have been funny once or twice but everytime we went out he’d be bantering at my expense. It’s almost like if he wasn’t doing that he wouldn’t know how to interact with me in public. In general I’ve found he’s never had my back and will take the side of anyone or anything else. His response? You don’t need me to stick up for you, you’re strong enough.

honestly I wonder if an open relationship later down the line is an option. Something has to change.

When we are out with other parents I notice how affectionate they are subtly with one another, supportive and a team. It makes me think it’s not he ages of the kids. Has anyone been in a similar boat?

Do you ever get weekends away from the kids together? Some time away really kept us going, but we did still enjoy spending time together.

That's exactly what gaslighting is

Marriages aren't always fun and positive - a long relationship involves ups and downs and, with children, a lot of hard work. However, it sounds like he doesn't fully respect you or care about your feelings. Putting you down in public, is not respectful or funny - it could be a dynamic a couple might jokingly share but this doesn't sound like it. Also being unable to talk to him about your issues - if there's no real communication, what do you have?

I've been married over 30 years. There have been periods where all we talked about were the children's needs and rarely spent quality time together. And times where I felt I actively disliked him. But we have always been able to talk when needed, we have never run out of things to say, I know he respects me and I him, and in recent years, with the kids being older, we have been able to have trips and days out etc just the two of us and that has helped a lot. Even in the darkest moments we used to make sure we had a TV programme we both watched together in the evenings spent at home to give us some form of connection and something non family related to talk about.

I don't know if your situation is salvageable if he isn't willing to listen to you.

End the relationship. You both sound miserable.
The conversations you describe sound painful, for you both.

He showed you, who he was, before you were married but you still got married.

You both deserve to be happy.

OP I'm sorry but it doesn't sound to me like it's fixable, mainly because a lot of the issues are actually his personality which you can't really change.

However, if you did want to try then you need to be completely blunt with him: "I have repeatedly tried to talk about the issues in our marriage but you refuse to engage with me. If you don't agree to marriage counselling or a proper discussion then I am considering divorce, this is making me miserable and it needs sorting" Just lay it out to him, then if he still refuses anything then you have your answer.

This ^

Perhaps she is needy because she has a husband who isn’t meeting any of her needs!

It's sad when the realisation hit you. I had this when I found my exh cheated on me. I weighed everything up, got ducks in a row a divorced him. He tried to fight me and wouldn't consent but I did it anyway. Then he refused to share up assets evenly. I only wanted a 50/50 split of house, business, caravan and money in bank but he just wouldn't agree. In the end the judge awarded me a little more than half and told exh he was being unreasonable in not acceptable a perfectly fair offer

Strong disagree. Gaslighting is doing something to provoke someone else and then when they react say it was their fault in the first place.

secondly, I couldn’t be bothered? I couldn’t try harder to have an emotional connection with him. It’s just become so bad; he doesn’t me how I am anymore day after day, despite me leaning in and taking a daily interest in his day (which he happily answers albeit with brevity as is his communication style). I feel like he doesn’t want to ask me as he has to listen.

It sounds utterly joyless and I don't see how either of you can be happy living like that. If I were you, I would be looking to seperate. Hell, I was you and I did leave him, and hard as it was it was the best thing for me. Do you love him? And if so, do you love him for who he is now, or who he was when you first met him. Because that version is gone and no matter how long you wait, he isn't coming back, and what he is now is who he will always be, although it will probably get worse as he gets older.

Stop swimming upstream, it's fruitless.

I wish people would actually realise that marriage, and even more having children is a really important decision that shouldn't be done with even the smallest doubt.

You say he didn't do lots of things you wanted before you got married.

You even had a proper process before marriage to understand the commitment you were making, and you treated it like a joke.

All of your choices now are hard and have massive negatives but make sure that you actually think through your decision, unlike getting married in the first place.

If he won't do marriage counselling them some individual therapy would be good to help you think through your choices

I have some experience of this, so will share. I was with my first H for 20 years. We had everything you could wish for - 2 fabulous kids, the big house, the cars, the money, the shares etc. I found out 16 years in, that he was trying to get with other women, every time he was drunk. I didn't want to break up all we had, so I said I would stay if he changed his behaviour. Over the next 4 years, he carried on drinking and being a letch. Over that time my love slowly died, and by the time I left him, there was NOTHING he could have done to make me stay. I despised him, and honestly, I still do.

I am now in my second marriage, and we are almost 18 years in. At times, I have been so angry with him (over silly things really), that I have thought in a moment of madness "fuck you, fuck this, we are over". The difference is though, that in my heart of hearts, I know I don't mean it. Even if I am fuming for an hour, I know that I would be utterly heartbroken if we didn't stay together.

My question is, which camp are you in? I mean truly? If you went to sleep tonight, and could wake up tomorrow, but it's 2038, who do you want to see lying next to you in bed - him - or another man? I think deep down, you know the answer to this.

Regards the impact of the kids. Hard to say. My son sailed through it, my daughter took years to recover.

Been there and got that T-shirt.

It really stung at the time, but I am much happier now and wish I'd done it sooner !

He is jealous of your success and feels inadequate. He doesn't want to ask you about your day because he doesn't want to hear about your competence. I would guess that if you lost your job at some point, he would be very happy about that and probably a lot nicer. It could all improve with counselling, but I know the type...cannot admit weakness or vulnerability.

Do you know my exH ?!

I thought he was a one-off but apparently not.

You are married to an emotionally stunted man @Mistymeg. I understand because I am married to one of those as well. Your DH will be like this as a result of his childhood. I know that doesn’t help you OP. If he won’t take steps to address his issues nothing will ever change. He will get much worse as he ages. You are a young woman and deserve to be so much happier. Good luck whatever you decide.💐

You are massively overestimating the consistency and quality of the pre marriage courses/counselling. Some are excellent and I think some form of pre marriage counselling should be a pre-requisite for any marriage. However I’ve heard of plenty of really bad courses, usually the type run in large classes in a form which seem designed to elicit teenage behaviour from the attendees. I’m not surprised that they have little benefit.

This is the root of your unhappiness. You’ve got a comparison, and he isn’t making the grade. And never will due to his personality being different to the chatty, emotionally engaged person you met at work.

Cut your losses. Do it now while the kids are little - it’s far less disruptive than when they’re in school, settled etc. You’re a long time dead.

You married a child. Out of interest did you marry the Big Irishman? And did things take a nose dive when your job started taking off?

The first ten years is a time when most couples look back - its one of the tough periods in most marriages with small children, trying to build jobs and make early mortgage payments. Few people find it a bed of roses and its easy to lose sight of why you married and find time for each other. However it really sounds like neither of you want time together, even on holidays. Sparks need kindling by both sides, they don’t magically sustain themselves.

You don’t need him to go to marriage counselling - you can go alone and that may help you come to a decision. You can share a lot more with a counsellor than you can share here. You need to think about what is best long term and maybe be a bit strategic/hard headed in your thinking. Sometimes when you step back it looks a bit different - for better or worse.

You don’t say which country you are in - in the UK you don’t need his consent to divorce, is this true where you are?

Really interesting and helpful, I had a very challenging up bringing and tbh this has plagued throughout my life but just when I thought I was settled with my own place to call home (finally!) away from the mess, conflict and aggression I grew up with I stumbled on each huge milestone, notably our wedding and birth of children. Not having the support was one thing, while everyone else had ‘their rocks, their mums’ to call and help and advise but looking back I had PND, which was quite another after DS1. DH was running around doing everything for me, except talking to me, and I struggled after the complicated birth, almost losing DS1, being far too unwell to hold him or feed him for hours after birth. DS1 was a challenging baby and I remember being at home alone with him day after day while he cried non stop with colic/over tiredness and struggling to feed him. I was on my own and looking back DH didn’t step up emotionally. When BIL/SIL called (his DB) I told them the story of the birth and as it wasn’t a short tell, DH started gesturing for me to wrap it up, almost embarrassed by me talking, I apologised over the phone and BIL said don’t apologise, this story is a lot, we’ve gone quiet as we are listening. I was furious at DH. Yet he runs around and does so much, to the point I’ve regressed into being child like at times - at one point I totally stopped cooking (I do now), I never get up with the kids in the morning and still don’t, I come down an hour later, (I have insomnia and he falls asleep within 30 seconds) so it’s worked for us. There is definitely resentment from his side on how much he does but so much loneliness and resentment from my side for how unsupportive he can be emotionally.

You know, on reading through all your replies, it strikes me that you are already quite convinced that there is a "right" person, and a "wrong" person. You have decided that you are right, that you have behaved quite correctly and it is his reactions, his communication style, his priorities and preferences which are wrong. THe reality is that marriage is merely two people agreeing on what does and does not matter, and showing each other forgiveness. What you've actually done is have en emotional affair, failed to think about your husband's vulnerabilities (which are plain to see), and made it all about what you need. I think the only possible way of saving this marriage is to get some counselling for yourself, be the bigger person for a bit, and see his crappy behaviour as a cry for help. Turn the other cheek.

Yes, they were quite bat shit. 'It doesn't matter how bad things are the Lord will carry you through with his love' was frequently trotted out and other such shite.

Have you ever hauled him up on these comments? I’d bollock the arse off my Dh in front of everyone were he to do this to me.

I don't think you're unreasonable OP, but you are both in a season of life that is depleting. You are working hard, you have two little kids - life can feel like one big project to manage.
My DP and I are a bit similar: most of our conversations are about our 3y/o DD or the house. Very little sex. Date nights are few and far between and sometimes can feel a little awkward until we both warm up.
It isn't an easy stage to be or to feel romantic!
But perhaps the key difference is that I do feel like DP and I are a team - a knackered, doom scrolling, sexless team, but a team nonetheless 😂
If you don't even have that feeling of camaraderie with your DH, then I think that should be a priority to tackle for both of you. Romance will surely return in some form, but only if you can remain loyal friends in these frantic years.
Perhaps let him know how adrift you feel and really listen to what he has to say back, both of you avoiding becoming defensive, and accepting that there are small habits and larger ones to break and remould.

But he has always been awful.
Pre marriage he wasn't nice.
Making you the butt of jokes?
Why on earth would you have thought that was acceptable.
I don't think he likes you.
I think your marriage is over.

You are flogging a dead horse.
Pivot your energy into your career so you can get out of this marriage.
It may take time, but at least you will have a goal.

Tell family and friends the truth and start to focus on the relationships outside your marriage so you are building your future away from him.

This is not about having young children.