AIBU to refuse request to shut my dog away for a playdate?

[QuarryQueen]

I'll try to keep this brief without drip feeding - sorry if I don't succeed!

DD5 has asked for a playdate with her friends during the Summer so I was organising this with the group of mums I'm friendly with (DD goes to school with their children but not all in same class). It's at our house and we're planning to do some activities in the garden. We have a 12 year old Beagle who is very placid, can't see very well and loves a fuss. She cries if shut in a room when she knows people are in.

So, there are 8 mums in the group and 4 of them have been to our house for a playdate before. The other 4 haven't but for no particular reason other than we just haven't got round to it.

I recently learnt that one of the children whose mum is in this group is very very scared of dogs and so is her sister who also usually comes along to playdates (only ever been to the park with them). I found this out when we were walking to the park and a dog passed them, it was on a lead and wasn't even looking in their direction but both girls screamed, clambered up their mum and were crying hysterically. It wasn't until the dog was out of sight they calmed down. I was honestly quite taken aback by their reaction, especially as the dog was so unbothered by their existence. I asked their mum if they'd had a bad experience with dogs in the past that had caused them to be so scared but she said no, they had just always been terrified of them.

Anyway, when organising this playdate their mum messaged me saying they'd love to come but could I shut my dog away before the girls got there and whilst they were playing. I said sorry, no, that would upset my dog and it's her home, she shouldn't have to be shut away. I reassured her that she is very placid and would probably not even come near the girls as she likes to just sleep under the trampoline or potter around my legs. Well, that didn't reassure her at all - the mum is absolutely fuming and said she can't believe I'm putting a dog's needs over children who I know are so scared of them and now she will have to tell them everyone else will be going but they will miss out. The other mums are split: the ones who have pets themselves agree with me whereas the ones without pets have said things like "surely she'll be fine shut away just for a few hours". So, I'm wondering what Mumsnetters think. Please could you let me know if you have pets when you respond. TIA.

Surely you have a spot for dog to chill in it's own home where it will be happy for a couple of hours.
Can it ...
be in fenced off part of yard or garage
be in room with child gate at door
be able to see you all through window
be in yard in pen or on leash

One activity could be for one child to pat dog.
The child who is afraid would never opt for that yet could see other children safely do so.

@QuarryQueen I wouldn't shut the dog away. She's old and as you said, will be upset. The kids don't need to come on the playdate. They should have some form of therapy for their fear as it sounds debilitating for them.

Edited to say not a pet owner or particularly a dog lover.

I have a dog. I will definitely keep him away from children if requested. Fear doesn't need a reason and these are small children!

In my experience anyway once the children have played by themselves for a bit, they will ask if they can pet the dog, and then over several visits they grow to become more comfortable and secure in his company.

I agree. As much as I love animals, humans are more important. If the dog is so placid, she won't mind being shut in a room for a couple of hours. I think it's quite normal to put a pet in another room is someone is coming round who has allergies, phobias, is old, immuno-compromised, or whatever. Not everyone is down with animals, for whatever reason. Being a good host means putting your guests' comfort first. Your dog will cope for the short time.

I'm not a pet owner, and I'm not a fan of dogs. But I've read all your updates and YANBU.

If your dog is elderly and has a visual impairment that makes her anxious when she can't tell where noise is coming from, it's cruel to lock her away. From what you've said it's only been something that's affected her in old age, which is completely different to typical separation anxiety.

You made a commitment to act in the best interests of your dog when you adopted her. It's not your fault your dogs best interests conflict with your daughter's friends best interests.

There are plenty of other playdates, and there's nothing stopping the mum planning an activity herself so that she can tell her child they're busy that day.

OP - another solution, is there another family member who could take your dog out for a long walk and/or to visit a friend who likes your dog and would be pleased to see her? If the dog wasn't at home, that would probably be best for everyone.

I’m not a dog fan, won’t have them in my house, don’t make a fuss of random dogs etc. But I wouldn’t demand someone else remove their dog from their home!

She needs to get those kids therapy. Being that frightened of dogs is not normal and severely debilitating.

They can come to a play date another time once they can learn to accept dogs exist.

I do think some pet-owners go a bit OTT. I love animals but putting them first at all times, even above a child, is just too much for me. Doesn't your cat just spend much of his time asleep, like most cats? Would he even care if he was in a room for a couple of hours? And what would you do if someone you liked a lot/cared about was coming to your house, and they were allergic or had a phobia? Animals can't, and shouldn't, come first ALL the time. Otherwise, just like human children, they become spoiled and disobedient. They need to be trained, and making them the top of the pyramid does them and the household no good. You just end up with an ill-trained, bad-mannered animal.

Although having said that, I'm not actually sure you can train cats.

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Fine shut away when people are out, but cries and comes out stressed and shaking when she knows people are in the house? She wanted to come out and see the people, so she's playing you like a violin! 🤣🤣🤣 My aunt's Yorkie used to shake and tremble and look utterly distressed when he decided he wanted to be carried home from his walk! 🤣

My son is terrified of dogs too but I would've simply declined the playdate since he wouldn't have settled knowing a dog was in another room anyway even if you were willing to put him away, would be lucky to get him through the door.

Speaking not about OP's dog but about some of the PPs' replies, I don't get all the general abject horror about shutting dogs away for a couple of hours. Obviously you wouldn't do it all day, but actually, dogs are pack animals and need a leader to obey. That is why dogs should never sleep in the bed with their owners nor be allowed to sit on the sofa without being invited up and why they should be fed after the family. And it's why, if a dog starts growling at a family member - which happens because the dog has got the impression that the family member is lower in the pecking order than the dog - then that person takes over the feeding. Dogs are happiest when their place in the pack is communicated clearly to them. Letting them be on a par with the family does them no favours. And the dogs who whine and cry the whole time when shut away are badly trained and think they are on a par or above the family, which is a bad place for a dog to be, as the next step is that they can get aggressive.

This might not apply to OP's dog, as he is elderly. Or playing her, like I said. 🤣 Either way, OP, I reckon he knows he's got his mummy wrapped around his back paw!

I agree with you, even though I don’t have a dog.

She’s an elderly, blind dog who will be very upset by this.

I have a DC who was very scared of dogs (after a bad experience with a feckless owner or walker, I’m not sure - minor injuries from a dog off lead in public, no control or accountability).

Having a play date with friend with a placid dog helped overcome the fear.

They can choose to come and see how it goes or not attend.

My sons were terrified of dogs. I really got sick and tired of dog owners lecturing me about what I’d done wrong in the past and exactly how I should fix it. I genuinely researched a lot of strategies and techniques and worked through it at a pace they could handle. I am sure dog owners with their advice on the behavioural response of my young children thought I was shutting them down too. There are a lot of opinionated people out there who looked at my child absolutely hysterical and assumed that I hadn’t noticed and needed their well meaning advice, not realising how many times I had heard it before. It takes time for kids to overcome trauma.

You aren’t going to move your dog. Which is fine. She has hurt feelings. Which is also fine. You can’t be surprised by this. You have made your decision and she will either get over it or the friendship is damaged. Either way these disagreements happen. You can get a whole bunch of internet randoms to agree or disagree with you but either way you are just going to have to ride it out and see if either of you wish to continue the friendship in the future.

So you are saying this posters kids were not nice as they didn’t want to be friends with those who didn’t like their furry family members? Poster didn’t say ‘those with dog phobia’ which you invented to make your point that kids were not nice and tolerant. You are not that appropriate as an adult.

I was terrified of dogs as a kid. Eventually I got exposed to a a large breed family dog, ( labrador) and he converted me.
Unless you are a dog owner and know how to handle a dog, you can’t help your child just by reading strategies. You need to gently expose him to gentle breeds with someone who can control the dog.
As long as your child gets hysterical ( your words), people will suggest.

I do get what you are saying. I’m sure they were being well meaning but it was a lot. I grew up with dogs. I don’t think I needed to own one to help my kids get over it, which they did eventually. I did expose my kids to gentle dogs and build up. You would be surprised though the amount of people that would think shouting “oh he just likes jumping, he’s friendly” over the sound of a sobbing child, instead of calling their dog back and consider this helpful.

I wouldn’t want a bunch of noisy kids around my dogs. (I have 2 dogs)..
If I was having a bunch of kids round I’d take the dogs somewhere safe.
mmy DD had a play date when she was in infants, year R I think, when I collected her the parents invited me in.. their 2 dogs were both in cages, apparently they always put them away .. I put mine away once because my daughter’s friend wouldn’t leave them alone!…
Anyway this friend needs to do something about her kids fear, it’s not healthy.. in the meantime though it’s up to you - if you have someone who could look after your dog and your dog would be happy then I’d do that… if not and there’s no way of you removing the dog without it being unhappy then the children will just have to miss out and mum will need to get her kids socialised with dogs!

I guess they are going to miss out on the play date because why should your elderly dog be locked away because of them. It’s your house and your dogs house they don’t get to make demands.

Honestly why have the parents allowed the kids reactions to carry on? Surely you’d gently expose your child. This could be a good first exposure lesson for the kids and the mother. If your dog will be genuinely upset by being locked away, I think you shouldn’t shut her away. Maybe a compromise would be to keep her on a lead.

This

My daughter is scared of dogs (bad experience from a family members ‘friendly’ dog) I’d have also asked you if they could be put away, but if you said no, fair enough, we wouldn’t come. For people saying expose your child so they are not scared etc, honestly I don’t trust dogs around my kids now so would rather not take the risk!

🤣🤣 buying gluten free snacks isn’t the same as locking a beloved pet away that you know will become so distressed it pukes!

No one is entitled to demand OP’s dog is locked away for their child’s comfort! If their child is allergic or scared of dogs then they politely decline the invite.

I’ve thrown parties without balloons because a kid was scared of balloons, cooked vegan meals for friends etc… BUT OP’s dog is a living, feeling member of the family and shouldn’t be treated in a way that causes it distress…

I guarantee the mother in this scenario has made her kids fear worse, she seems very negative and unwilling to even try to cure her kids fear. Shes refused to attend when really she should be saying to her kids - Lucy has a play date at her house, they’ve got a lovely dog there who will be asleep in the corner on a lead under Lucy’s mums chair…. You can play with your friends and the dog will just be there having belly rubs ok…. If the kid kicks off then it doesn’t go, but I’d guess most kids would say ‘you definitely won’t let the dog come over to me’ and mum reassuring their child the dog will be on a lead would be enough … they might keep checking where the dog is at first but would relax and play once they saw the dog was under control… these positive interactions of just being in the same space as a dog is positive exposure. The child needs to get used to just being in the same space but not touching dogs, mum isn’t going to be able to pick up 2 kids every-time a dog is coming along the pavement forever! Then what happens? They run into the road to escape their fear? Mum isn’t doing her kids any favours at all and needs to sort this whole they’re still young

She probably has tried. Many times.

Dogs are everywhere. Trust me, it isn't fun having a child who is terrified of dogs so of course most parents are going to try and do something about it.

My son physically can't relax if a dog is nearby, even on a lead and would rather not go in the first place because it isn't fun for anyone. Exposure hasn't helped at all, he simply struggles to trust dogs and their owners. For him, it was a bad experience where a dog approached him outside, jumped up at him and hurt him. He's never liked dogs but wasn't scared of them until that happened.

locking a beloved pet away that you know will become so distressed it pukes!

That sounds like a dog with severe behavioural issues that need attention.