Autism vs trans - clashing views

[sunshine244]

I'm in a tricky position with my AuDHD 12 year old. There is a trans boy in their class who recently started using a new name and pronouns he/him.

My son is very black and white thinking and very scientific. He is a bit grumpy at having to learn a new name as he struggles when e.g. teachers or family/friends get married and change name. But he has accepted that pretty quickly. But he flat out refuses to use the new pronouns as he says a girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery (which at this age of course isn't going to happen).

I sympathise with his as personally I don't think social transitioning this young is sensible. But I am also aware that the child's parents are very pushy about the situation and have already posted in the parents group about children bullying by not using the right pronouns/name. They got a lot of support from other parents.

I suppose my aibu is should i be forcing my son to use the child's preferred pronouns?

Yabu - I need to push my son to use preferred he/him pronouns

Yanbu - let child decide which pronouns to use or try to avoid pronouns

Get a grip. No matter what our personal views are, trans people exist in the world and deserve the same respect as everyone else. Children (autistic or not) need to learn to live in the world with other people and not be dickheads.

I’d argue that failing to teach your children tolerance of other people and the way they choose to live their lives is deeply harmful.

Having been in the position OPs son is, I can assure you are not offering a sensible or respectful position. It is extremely coercive and damaging to someone to ‘advise’ them ( and it is coercive to advise he should lie about what he sees and knows to be true) to lie by using ‘chosen’ pronouns. Being forced to say things that you know are not true is damaging. Bullies understand well that forcing people to say and do things is a form of humiliating control over someone. It is a form of humiliation to be socially required to buy into a belief system you know is wrong by using pronouns your eyes and ears know are wrong. . It’s disturbing to realise individuals and institutions expect this. How can you ever trust them on anything again?

And I am not even autistic. I imagine it will hit OP’s son even harder.

I refused to use a colleagues preferred pronouns but used their new name instead. That is the nearest thing to a best compromise.

Get a grip. Verbal abuse won't change reality. It's abusive and dangerous to coercively bully children into participating in a fantasy.

End.

And most schools will allow people to choose pronouns. In the same way that my workplace and many others do. Plus nothing the Supreme Court said goes against this- that ruling was all about the meaning of woman in the Equality Act. It specifically didn’t go into use of pronouns and personal choice.

But this is why I have suggested to the OP that she should speak to the school and ask them exactly what their policy is and what kids have been asked to do.

You are not respecting other people by telling them they have to lie and adopt the language and rules of a belief system they don’t share.

All you have done is decided one group matters more than another and has the right to force others to submit to their beliefs and practices.

You really aren’t the tolerant one.

Tolerance is living your life, your way but not expecting others to adopt that too.

If his teacher got married and wanted to be called Mrs Smith instead of Ms Brown, he would learn it and be expected to call her by the right name. He might think that taking a mans name and changing your title is outdated, lies in a patriarchal trend, where men 'owned women and married women were then the property of the man's family. But he might decide not to be a dick and do it anyway. Your son is going to come across people who are not like him his whole life and he needs to learn this. Does he know there are people who think autism doesnt exist?

Your dogwhistle to ableism notwithstanding, you are aware your comment is not actually relevant of course.

If he was expected to call her Mr Brown, pretend she's a man and deny reality that would be coercive bullying, disrespectful and harmful to the OPs child .

But you already know that.

I refused to use a colleagues preferred pronouns but used their new name instead. That is the nearest thing to a best compromise.

Unless the name is totally gender neutral, this is no different to using pronouns, and aren’t you still “engaging in the fantasy” on one level?

Honestly the way I see it is that trans people will not cease to exist and nor (in the vast majority of cases) would I want them to. I don’t believe that by calling yourself a woman you become a woman, but I also don’t believe that all trans people are evil abusers who are intent on making womens’ lives miserable. Many trans people are just trying to get on with their lives and, yes, working through some issues. So if they want me to use a particular pronoun and that makes life a bit easier for them/ doesn’t affect me, then I will.

Explaining this sort of attitude (which is held by many) is not abusive in the slightest.

Surely he is only going to be using her pronouns when he talks about her, not to her. So if he doesnt talk about her then no need, although others might be talking about her and then use 'him/he' and it will be a puzzle as to who they're talking about

Best use the name only perhaps

However no child should be lying about stuff like this or forced to lie.

No of course using a name isn't remotely the same as being forced to lie about reality.

Transology is already on the way out.

And provided you're not trying to coercively abuse, bully, harass or terrorise anyone else into participating in the fantasy, you do you.

Well this post is a good example of the confusion that exists in this whole sorry mess

OP describes a trans boy. That means she is a girl who says (at the moment) that she thinks she is a boy.

This is how whole swathes of areas of London where English is not the first language ended up with apparently high numbers of trans people because people didnt understand the question on some survey or something, might even have been the census, I cant recall now.

Tough one- crap for all the kids involved.

Part of being trans is accepting that you cannot force - either through bullying or the law - other people to see you as the sex you would prefer to be.

The sooner the kid learns that the better their life will be.

Well, actually he is. Even if this child has surgery they don't magically change sex.

Well it’s not going to go well if your DC refers to a trans boy as ‘she’. Either avoid pronouns or use their preferred ones. Accepting the person’s pronoun choices and accepting that sex change is possible are two different things.

I was typing quickly! I can assure you that I do understand the difference, and the OP’s post was really clear.

No of course using a name isn't remotely the same as being forced to lie about reality.

Really- so if your colleague, formerly Peter, now asks to be called Jane, you’d be fine with using Jane, but not calling them she/ her?

Coercing children to use wrong sex pronouns is cruel and abusive.

It should be illegal at this age as a 12 year old can’t decide whether they like chips/peas, let alone their gender.

I wouldn't be fine with them insisting upon discussing the religion of transology at all and would completely avoid them forevermore. But if forced to refer to them, using the invented name is not pretending I believe in their religion and is just barely tolerable. Whereas being gaslighted into pretending they're the opposite sex is abusive, cruel and intolerable.

20 years ago my friend named her daughter Jordan, typically a boy's name in that time and place. But a name not an acceptance of a fantasy, so Jordan it was

Honestly, Id ask the school to move him to a new class for the new school year (assuming you are northern hemisphere!) You DC is going to find this tricky, the other kids could use this as a reason to bully him if he isn't referring to the trans DC right and you've said the parents are already a nightmare.

Unfortunately this came up via kids at school about a year ago. They were laughing at him beacsue he likes to play mainly with the girls. One said its ok because he can get an operation to become a girl in future. He was really upset so we had to discuss at home.

It took a while for him to accept its ok to be a boy who likes some 'girl' things. But I think this new situation has opened up all the hurt again.

Poor kid. Try to get him away from these toxic people if possible.

The amount of posters accusing others of bullying a child while encouraging the OP to advise her son to completely shun and ignore another child is absolutely wild.

I'd just explain that some people believe they can change sex, but that this isn't true, and your classmate is still the same person underneath. And if you don't want to call them a boy or call them he/him then don't, just use their name. You don't have to be friends but you do have to be polite.

I'd tell him to proceed with respect and kindness and treat people how he himself hopes to be treated.

Until I know someone’s name these days I just call everyone “thingy”.