Autism vs trans - clashing views

[sunshine244]

I'm in a tricky position with my AuDHD 12 year old. There is a trans boy in their class who recently started using a new name and pronouns he/him.

My son is very black and white thinking and very scientific. He is a bit grumpy at having to learn a new name as he struggles when e.g. teachers or family/friends get married and change name. But he has accepted that pretty quickly. But he flat out refuses to use the new pronouns as he says a girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery (which at this age of course isn't going to happen).

I sympathise with his as personally I don't think social transitioning this young is sensible. But I am also aware that the child's parents are very pushy about the situation and have already posted in the parents group about children bullying by not using the right pronouns/name. They got a lot of support from other parents.

I suppose my aibu is should i be forcing my son to use the child's preferred pronouns?

Yabu - I need to push my son to use preferred he/him pronouns

Yanbu - let child decide which pronouns to use or try to avoid pronouns

Genuinely horrifyingly.

Wow, the trans hating replies to this thread are fucking bonkers.

Well I'd firstly correct what you've said to him and explain that not even surgery will change your sex. It will just leave you mutilated.

How do you go about dealing with religion generally? Presumably he knows not to tell Christian schoolmates that it's all made up?

Don’t be ridiculous!

Children with autism need to be guided and helped to manage social situations. There can be quite black and white thinking, if he is encouraged to handle a situation like this bluntly then he may well handle all situations in the same way which can lead to trouble and social isolation.

You’re weaponising autism and trans children for your own aims which is vile.

Young people are far more inclusive than MN- thankfully!

I cannot think of a time I have ever used pronouns with my friends. I’ve always just called them by their name. It doesn’t have to be complicated. You can treat someone with respect without agreeing with their views. It’s a good life skill to master!

😂hysterical

Personally I agree with your son.

But I think this comes down to the school’s policy. If the school have said that their policy is that preferred pronouns should be used then, TBH, that’s the end of this unless you take it up with the school and the policy changes (and this seems very unlikely). Maybe explain it to your son in those terms if it helps him understand. Like there are quite a few school policies which I disagree with (school uniform, some other things that teachers do) but if I ask the school to take my kids I have to accept that those are the rules and either live with them, try to change them at the school level or choose a different school.

So I would, in the first instance, speak to the school about this and double check exactly what their position is.

To me there’s also an issue of personal respect, in that I might not agree with a person’s choices but unless they harm me in a significant way I will not be rude/ disrespectful to them.

The reality is that unless he does what the school has asked he’s just going to keep getting in trouble (especially if the school
know he’s doing it deliberately) and ironically probably entrench the child- there is nothing some trans people like more than an identity fight!

I’m as GC as they come but I agree with this.

Your son is correct. They will probably be a girl by the time year eleven rolls around again! So many young trans people end up regretting it.

Coercively bullying a child into denying reality, lying and participating in a fantasy is cruel, disrespectful, unkind and deeply harmful.

He needs to avoid these toxic people at all costs and if forced to interact only use the child's name. Forcing him to lie is dangerous, harmful, unkind and deeply disrespectful.

Oh FGS no one is coercively bullying anyone. No one is standing over the child forcing him to do anything.

What people are doing are suggesting sensible ways in which this tricky situation could be explained to an autistic young person, specifically without asking them to change their core beliefs, but in a way which means that they won’t constantly be at loggerheads with the school/ other family for the next 7 years. And where they are at least respectful to another vulnerable person who holds a different view.

Taking your own personal issues and using them to make someone else’s life more difficult is not helpful.

Pronouns are not a personal choice issue as they require others to enter into a whole ideological belief system. As OPs son has well articulated.

You are simply being dishonest about your position when you say pronouns are personal choice. If you think ‘chosen’ pronouns are something everyone must adopt, then at least be honest that your position is that this is a secular belief system that should be forced on all, regardless of whether they believe in the ideology. At least then you are being open with yourself and others about your authoritarian and intolerant position.

They’ll only be “at loggerheads” if the school are supporting the child and their family’s enforcement that others must follow their belief system.

OP, until 5 minutes ago, mental health issues which involved delusion, fantasy or psychosis such as schizophrenia or anorexia were approached the same way - unless you are the treating professional you avoid the topic. You don't offer advice to the afflicted person and you absolutely NEVER affirm the delusion or pretend you too can hear the voices.

By ignoring this basic safeguarding the #beunkind crew have cemented in the brains of attention seeking and unwell people that they can force the world to comply with their wants. This leads to a spiral of pain for those who desperately want the delusion to be true because they always, a hundred times a day, slam into the wall of reality, and they don't cope well with that.

If affirmed enough in the fantasy the child may also access wrong sex, early death infertility and atrophy hormones. If their demands are politely batted away and attention for their fantasy withdrawn they may avoid that fate.

Unfortunately that's all the help you can give the other child.

So as well as being desperately cruel to your own child to try to coercively bully them into speaking lies, it's actually very cruel to the other child in the end too.

You don't feed morbidly obese kids McDonald's if you care about their well being and you don't call them slender and encourage them to eat two dinners either. Reality matters.

Enforcing wrong sex pronouns is abuse. Insisting a child lie and deny reality is abuse.

End.

Great. Another trans bashing thread. When are Mumsnet going to do something about this? And before I get a pile on, it very much is trans bashing.

teach your child respect and kindness and use their preferred name.

This!

Tell him to avoid the kid completely and have nothing to do with it. No talking about the kid, no referring to the kid, no interacting with the kid, nothing at all.

I have done this before. I'm not participating in someone's fantasy and endorsing a damaging and dangerous illusion, but at the same time I don't want to be cancelled or villified. So just ignore and avoid the person completely.

But the trans kid calls your by the correct name?
Suck it up.. autistic or not.

How is this being “enforced”. And the “reality” of the OP’s son is that he’s been asked by a classmate to refer to them as “she” and knows he probably will get into quite a bit of trouble if he wilfully refuses. He’s not being asked to accept this in his own mind, no one here is the thought police, he’s being asked not to wilfully offend the child and follow what he’s been asked to do by the school.

Encouraging him to take a particular stance on pronouns at this age instead of explaining different ways to think about it (so he can make up his own mind) is ridiculously immature and I would say incredibly unhelpful to a young person who is autistic and might need a bit of help negotiating this situation sensibly. Rather than repetitive alarmist rants about “abuse.”