Autism vs trans - clashing views

[sunshine244]

I'm in a tricky position with my AuDHD 12 year old. There is a trans boy in their class who recently started using a new name and pronouns he/him.

My son is very black and white thinking and very scientific. He is a bit grumpy at having to learn a new name as he struggles when e.g. teachers or family/friends get married and change name. But he has accepted that pretty quickly. But he flat out refuses to use the new pronouns as he says a girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery (which at this age of course isn't going to happen).

I sympathise with his as personally I don't think social transitioning this young is sensible. But I am also aware that the child's parents are very pushy about the situation and have already posted in the parents group about children bullying by not using the right pronouns/name. They got a lot of support from other parents.

I suppose my aibu is should i be forcing my son to use the child's preferred pronouns?

Yabu - I need to push my son to use preferred he/him pronouns

Yanbu - let child decide which pronouns to use or try to avoid pronouns

YABU. My son is also autistic and really doesn’t like change, quite black and white in his thinking, struggles socially a lot. But fully accepts 2 family members who have changed names and pronouns. He did ask why of course, which is a fair question and we said to him that this is what they wanted and it’s important to respect that as we don’t want people we love to feel unhappy and excluded. He loves them both and so agrees with this. There’s a kid in his school in fact who he doesn’t like at all, who changed their name and pronouns. Son calls them by their new name and pronouns.

I guess what I’m saying is you’re not doing your child any favours by giving him a pass because of his autism.

Nah. Avoiding a fantasist whose parents are toxic, coercive, dangerous bullies is a great strategy.

It's a pity the other kid can't be helped because of people like you, but OP can only protect her own son.

Coercively bullying a child to lie and pretend reality doesn't exist is abuse. HTH

Nobody is saying you shouldn’t call someone by their chosen pronouns. If you chose to adopt the practices of any belief system of course you should be free to do so.

The objection is to expecting others to do likewise.

Yes you are right, I was not 100 percent comfortable with using his new female name. That’s why I described it as a compromise. By definition, in compromises people are doing things that ideally they would not, but draw the line at things that they find intolerable.

I accepted the name thing ( though in practice never referred to the individual by their name in front of them and used his male name when talking one to one about him to others. No one in my organisation believed this individual was a TW, everyone knew he was a deeply troubled individual. In fact, come to think of it although I told my manager I would use his new name, but would not refer to him as she/her, I am not sure I ever did use his chosen name in practice ) as the gendered nature of names is a cultural convention. Sex is not. Pronouns reflect the reality of sex that millennia of evolution have programmed us to identify on sight with near 100 percent accuracy, at least for those who have gone through puberty .

I also did not want to use this individual’s chosen pronouns as it was clear that transitioning, especially medically, would solve none of his many problems but would just add on more. I did not want to play any part in enabling that and not using wrong sex pronouns was part of that. Using wrong sex pronouns is not a neutral or harmless act.

I maintain that answering bullying with more bullying - both of which in this case is coming from the parents, not the children - is neither a healthy nor constructive approach.

It’s not bullying or abuse.

Yes he's learned not to discuss religion - he thinks it's all madness 🤣 I suppose the difference is that he isn't expected to show he agrees with someone else's religious beliefs.

What do you mean “not going to go well”?
are all those who are saying that children must engage with this ideology also in agreement that if a child comes into school and now says that before and after lunch they will say grace, and all children who sit with them must also. Any child who does not join in saying grace or will not sit at the table with this child.. it “will not go well for” the school will enforce this.

Yes, of course coercively bullying a child into pretending reality doesn't exist to pander to a fantasy is abuse.

HTH.

The amount of posters accusing others of bullying a child while encouraging the OP to advise her son to completely shun and ignore another child is absolutely wild.

Yes and the Supreme Court did make it clear that trans people are protected in their own right under the Equality Act, so deliberately excluding them or discriminating against them in other ways is illegal. This very much could include refusing to work with them, excluding them from conversation etc. If I did this at work I’d get sacked.

Plus in school setting it seems to be virtually impossible to completely avoid another child in exactly the same year group. Even if they are in a different class, what if they have to work together in drama, or get sat together in maths? The OP’s son needs a way to work through this.

And can anyone imagine suggesting doing this to a 12yr old who thought they might be gay?

It doesn’t help actually because I respectfully disagree with you.

Nah. Avoiding a fantasist whose parents are harmful coercive bullies who want compliance for their fantasy is perfectly legal, ethical and correct. HTH.

No it is not, it mocks those who have experienced bullying and abuse.

And you can put HTH on the end of as many posts as you like but it doesn’t change reality and looks rather silly.

In addition, the assumption in your post is that all young people who adopt trans identities are ‘trans’ (which I take to mean people with life long settled sex dysphoria) when in reality many will not be. And some of those will go on to medically transition which will make their life harder.

Children with gender incongruence need proper therapeutic support to help them deal with their problems and issues. Not affirmation of the coping method that they have stumbled across. Maladjusted coping methods make things worse long term.

Yes, of course coercively bullying a child into pretending reality doesn't exist to pander to a fantasy is abuse.

But you already know that.

HTH.

Well, naturally. Because you think reality is dependant on your whims. It's not.

HTH

He is fine with married names changing because it is a person joining a new family. It makes sense.

He also knows some people don't believe in autism. I expect he has read far more about autism than any of those people ever will though 🤣 I'm sure he'd be happy to debate it. Part of the problem is he's not allowed to debate or question gender change.

You might just have to let this unfold @sunshine244 how it does.

You say your son has accepted the other child’s new name, that there are already a group of bullies towards the trans boy not using he/him, so as far as the trans child’s parents are concerned that is bullying.

You might just have to let this play out and your son might be perceived as one of the bullies. Or it might blow over.

You can calmly say in the parents WhatsApp chat that your son struggles with changes and is very black and white on this topic being autistic.

Society used to believe that homosexuality could be cured, we now know through brain research that attraction is fixed in a part of the brain and it’s just there regardless. In time, and it does take time because you need trans people to donate their bodies to medical research when they die and there hasn’t been enough of those yet, we may discover that there is a part of the brain that is boy/girl and sometimes a boy brain ends up in a girl body, who knows?

In life we all have to nod along with things we very much do not believe. That is just something we all have to do and that isn’t going to change for autistic individuals.

If you can teach/persuade your son over the summer holidays that nodding along, accepting a pronoun regardless of his beliefs, might be the easiest way to navigate this rather than him potentially being wound up and distracted by it.

Yes this could get very messy.
Yes your son could end up being the scapegoat if more children “side with” trans boy.

As you can see it’s a loaded topic, if your son is popular in school, people follow his lead, has a big crew around him, he might be able to carry off not using preferred pronouns. But could easily be the one on the sidelines saying she’s not a he alone.

Teenagers are fickle and nasty sometimes.

And trans boy might change their mind again, it might be because the girl was getting unnecessary attention as a girl and has decided it will be better to go through secondary school as a boy.

It’s easier to shrug and say he regardless of personal belief, this isn’t a black and white topic, applying black and white thinking doesn’t apply. There will be other autistic teens who do just accept the change of pronoun. Because that’s the point everyone is different. And in these situations playing to society norms (smile politely and play along) might be the best option.

Do not tell me what I know. Having an autistic child that has been both bullied and abused I know what bullying and abuse is ( which this absolutely is not)and also how important it is to support autistic children through difficult situations.

Your HTH is really rather purile.

No, the child isn't being bullied according to the OPs post. The parents, who are attempting to coercively bully the other children into participating in their fantasy, are attempting DARVO by pretending that using correct sex pronouns is bullying. But, of course, it's not.

Using the name is the only compromise necessary. Attempting to coercively bully a child into pretending reality isn't real is abuse.

This just isn’t correct- trans people are protected from discrimination. Google it or read the Supreme Court judgment (which no doubt is “abusive and coercive” in its very existence if you don’t believe me).

And for “fantasist” see “confused and upset 12 year old” and “coercive bully” read “parents who are trying to help their child.” Even if you don’t agree with them, surely you can see that there might be shades of grey here for the trans child and their family. And the child is 12 so deserving of a bit of help and empathy, not just being shunned, and ignored. Do you know ANY trans people or families with trans kids trying to work through it?

Writing HTH does not miraculously remedy an incorrect, dismissive and badly put post, it just makes you look passive- aggressive.

They can do whatever they want to support their child, but the cannot insist other people must lie and buy into delusion.