Autism vs trans - clashing views

[sunshine244]

I'm in a tricky position with my AuDHD 12 year old. There is a trans boy in their class who recently started using a new name and pronouns he/him.

My son is very black and white thinking and very scientific. He is a bit grumpy at having to learn a new name as he struggles when e.g. teachers or family/friends get married and change name. But he has accepted that pretty quickly. But he flat out refuses to use the new pronouns as he says a girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery (which at this age of course isn't going to happen).

I sympathise with his as personally I don't think social transitioning this young is sensible. But I am also aware that the child's parents are very pushy about the situation and have already posted in the parents group about children bullying by not using the right pronouns/name. They got a lot of support from other parents.

I suppose my aibu is should i be forcing my son to use the child's preferred pronouns?

Yabu - I need to push my son to use preferred he/him pronouns

Yanbu - let child decide which pronouns to use or try to avoid pronouns

Try to avoid pronouns. When talking to the child it is “you”.

Your son should be respectful but he’s entitled to his own beliefs, and even if you believe
in transgenderism, at that age it might well be very fluid anyway.

”A girl can’t just decide to be a boy”
is in keeping with the law. But the idea that she can is worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Just tell your ds not to talk about this child and there will be no pronouns needed. If need be use the child's name. Pronouns are very easily avoided, especially for a random classmate.

Well no. Of course you can't/shouldn't force him. And it isn't an autistic symptom to feel uncomfortable lying about sex, or to find it difficult to suppress your knowledge of sex when referring to someone.

Though since he has an autism diagnosis, hopefully the school won't be dicks about this

I’d just have him avoid using pronouns.

He's not wrong.

The idea that a girl can change into a boy has never been tested as to whether it is or is not worthy of respect in a democratic society.

OP I would say that any consequences given to your DS for being literal and saying the emperor has got no clothes is disability discrimination.

Guidance for schools says to avoid social transitioning children.

This is so difficult and a big subject for your child which proves that schools should not be social transitioning anyone.

This is setting your child up to belong to the be kind cadre which will make it difficult for him to speak the truth. Transgender Trend have great resources

https://www.transgendertrend.com/equality-act-boys-and-girls/

I think you should be clear that there are things individuals get to decide for themselves - what name or nickname they want used is one, pronouns is another.

He can hold a private view about trans issues and still use the preferred pronouns.

If nothing else, he is going to cause offence and probably come across badly to peers if he chooses this course of action.

He is being caused offence by being asked to lie. In offence taking top trumps who wins?

I agree individuals can decide for themselves what name they want to be called, but I disagree that they can compel others to use their ‘preferred’ pronouns. Not everyone believes in gender ideology and people who don’t should not be compelled to go along with it.

Explain to him that while a boy cannot biologically become a girl it is possible for him to live as a girl, wear girls clothes and use a girls’ name.

Explain that opening up about transitioning takes guts and can become confusing. It’s not particularly straightforward. It can cause a lot of upset and arguments.

Explain that using preferred pronouns would make the child happy and they would have a brighter day.

I say this as someone with a trans partner and I’ve had to explain it to children.

Tricky. Both protected characteristics ( I think?!).

Does your DS need to engage with them
very much?

He is correct. She is and always will be a girl/woman.
He is right to feel that is wrong to lie. Could he maybe do his best to ignore, avoid etc this girl as much as possible. And if forced to interact/refer to her just stick exclusively to her chose name.
He shouldn’t be required to respect this girls new identity. His knowledge of scientific facts and objective truth deserves respect too.

No absolutely not. No individual gets to coerce others in this fiction.

OP I think you should move this to the board, Feminism: Sex and Gender in the hope of accurate advice.

It is known it is harmful to affirm the way this child’s parents are doing. It would be safer if they were more neutral.

Tell your son that no amount of operations or hormones will change the child’s sex.

it is possible for him to live as a girl

She doesn’t believe that, her sensible son doesn’t believe that, why would she say any of these things?

This confused girl is being failed by the adults around her and it’s not the role of other parents like OP to try and coerce their children into supporting a delusion with emotional blackmail.

OP, I’m not sure if Forstater covers children at school but I think his belief that sex is immutable is covered by the EA2010.

It’s not possible for a boy/man to live as a girl/woman. Or vice versa. In the same way that I cannot live my life as a hippopotamus. Or a donut. It’s nonsensical.

girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery

body modification surgery does not alter biological sex

Help him practice using their name instead. The end. Unless he wants to pick a fight and open the floodgates to classmates calling him by pronouns or names he does not like or consent to.

It's horrifyingly disrespectful to demand someone pretends reality doesn't exist because it's your preference. And demanding others participate in your fantasy is abuse.

Your son is doing nothing wrong by offering reality based language instead of wrong sex pronouns, and forcing him to comply with a lie would be gaslighting and abusive.

Referring to them by name is tricky but he can try that, and definitely completely avoid them as much as possible.

If the other child continues to try bully your son by coercion and attempting to inflict their fantasy on him you'll have to take it further.

Well, your son isn't exactly wrong, is he? You can't change sex. Which for a tiny number of people (those with actual severe gender dysphoria) is a tragedy.

Disability (in this case autism and ADHD) is one of the protected characteristics under Equality Act 2010. I'd ask school, very politely, how they make sure his rights are protected in this situation.

I'd agree with him that it's impossible, but to avoid conflict, teach him how to avoid using pronouns entirely, as others have said. Use the new name when referring to the other child.

I don't see why anyone should be forced to play along with this, whether they're autistic or not, and avoiding pronouns seems the path of least resistance that doesn't require compromising your personal beliefs.

Your son isn’t wrong but he doesn’t have the right to disrespect and upset people.

Many of us use incorrect pronouns that we’d prefer not to because it is more important to get on with people and avoid distressing them than it is to be right about something that has no effect on us.

But it sounds like the cognitive dissonance is having a negative effect upon him. Basically, he feels like he is being told to lie, whilst doubtless having also been told that lying is wrong.