AIBU to think secretly recording friends is a major breach of trust?

[cheesecakesaturday]

I met two friends for coffee this morning, one of whom I’ve known for years, the other one I only met last year but we’ve become close and introduced them a few months ago. We’d been chatting for about half an hour when the one I’ve known longer went to the loo leaving her handbag on the chair.

When she came back she picked her bag up and accidentally dropped it on the floor, her phone fell out and the screen lit up. At a quick glance it looked like the Voice Memos app and there was recording in progress as I could clearly see a timer counting up.

She grabbed it very quickly, locked the screen and put it back in her bag. I didn’t say anything because I was so taken aback.

After we said goodbye to the other friend about half an hour later, I psyched myself up the courage and asked her why she was voice recording us. She looked embarrassed and admitted she’d started recording before she went to the toilet because she wanted to make sure we weren’t talking about her while she was gone. She said she was jealous and worried about being replaced by my new friend as she’d had experiences of being abandoned in the past.

I honestly didn’t know what to say. On one hand, I feel quite sad for her if she genuinely feels that anxious. On the other, I think secretly recording your friends, even for that reason, is a huge breach of trust.

AIBU to think this is a massive breach of trust, or am I catastrophising?

But it's for you to decide what you're happy to disclose to others. People vary greatly in what they're comfortable sharing. The two friends who remained at the table had that right to decide removed from them, without their knowledge.

It is became illegal as soon as she left the table. It is legal to record a conversation you are part of, but not one you aren’t.
I wouldn’t drop her as a friend but this level of anxiety/jealousy is extreme and she needs to address that. It’s probably affecting other relationships she has.

First of all fair play to any woman who can go to the toilet in a cafe in 2 minutes start to finish.

If you are the kind of person who never shares a confidence with a friend and who never says anything to anyone you wouldn't want said to the entire world, then of course you won't relate to this issue but surely you recognise that you are very unusual and most people sometimes do say things to one person that they wouldn't want said to another - or everyone.

I have said to one friend things like "I'll fill you in on the drama with dd tomorrow" or even "please don't mention what I told you about ds's job - I'm not telling everyone" when the other friend or friends heads to the loo or to get a coffee from the counter. It is perfectly normal to tell a friend something you don't want everyone to know. It is perfectly normal to confide in some friends and not others.

Surely people are just playing devil's advocate here. Is the argument that you wouldn't say anything confidential anyway so you are comfortable with a record without your knowledge being used for whatever purpose? What if you DID have something private to say - even if it was as mundane as "jesus I have terrible piles they are killing me"

I couldn't stay friends with her.

It doesnt matter whether you would feel personally comfortable with it or not- the fact is, it's being done covertly without your consent. Also, you werent the one being recorded so its irrelevant what your feelings are about it, the person here whose feelings matter is the one being recorded.

Are you literally saying consent doesnt matter? would you be happy with the government tapping your telephone calls because you arent talking about anything confidential so hey ho, its all cool? what about someone hacking into your emails without your knowledge? - is that all fine too?

Worth reading that website - I'm not a legal expert. It does sound like the advice describes intercepting live audio because that's what you'd always be recording. Or did you mean something else? Trying to think of an example where it wouldn't be live..

It may or may not be illegal - but that's not relevant.

It's insane. It is a massive, gross breach of trust. It shrieks personality disorder. Run the fuck away from this batty woman. Seriously. Do not talk to her, message her, respond to her in any way. Do not gossip about her or discuss with anyone else. Just get her the hell out of your life. You can't fix her and she is dangerous.

If this is what you've caught her doing, she is absolutely definitively and irrefutably capable of worse. See Baby Reindeer and her ilk. Women aren't usually as physically as dangerous as men, but they can do you an immense amount of harm when they're insanely jealous and batshit crazy. And she is.

It’s a terrible way to behave and I wouldn’t stay friends with someone after they had done that. But I think it happens more than we realise. It’s happened to me, sadly.

Living life in peace….

It's insane. It is a massive, gross breach of trust. It shrieks personality disorder.

I agree - this is way more than just anxiety. There is an element of manipulation and deception here that goes beyond just being a bit anxious and actually reading the OP she said "jealous" not anxious so thats even more of a red flag- its controlling

It's wild to think that just because you are fine with people know you suffer from migraines that nobody else has medical issues they would rather others not knowing about.
Talk about main character syndrome!

That would be the friendship over for me. Her extreme anxieties are her problem to fix - not yours to deal with.

You couldn't trust her with anything. Who's to say she won't start snooping around your house when your back is turned?

It’s wild to think everyone would be bothered, we don’t all think we are so special that the whole world is fascinated by what we are doing.
See everyone has different opinions, isn’t MN wonderful. Some people talk about their own feelings others criticise other people.

I don't even know what you're trying to say....
Clearly her friend IS interested, because she's recording her! 🙃

It's not that you don't care who knows all the ins and outs about your health/body - it's more the fact that you feel others couldn't possibly hold a different view. The complete absorption and lack of empathy that because you don't give a toss who knows your medical issues, that anyone being bothered by it is a minority perspective / overraction is insane.

i feel a bit sorry for her. She admitted what she was doing, and reasons for it. Tell her you disapprove / don’t like it but I don’t think it’s a reason to drop her

I would offer reassurance, she sounds really damaged by her past, it’s very extreme. I would tell her you will never ever talk about her or replace her, and she is welcome to record you all as often as she likes if that makes her feel better ( she prob won’t ever do it again)

I might ask her if she wants to share what made her feel that way, if you want to deepen and strengthen the friendship, you can do so by using this as a way to understand who she is. I’d also make more time for 1-1 with her. I am soft hearted and honest, so wouldn’t be horrified, but it is extreme.

she’d had experiences of being abandoned in the past

Abandoned or people running as far and as fast as they could because she doesn't respect their privacy, is sly and crosses boundaries.

If you wanted to keep this friend I wouldn't have her in your home OP, I would be worried what she would do.

She said she was jealous and worried about being replaced by my new friend as she’d had experiences of being abandoned in the past.

Do you believe that? At this point I would have explained that socialising with people who secretly recorded me was not happening and before excusing myself would suggest that she seeks counselling for her trust issues. If she is already in counselling I would suggest she talks through what just happened with her therapist. Absolutely no way would I tolerate this kind of behaviour.

If this woman was a man, most posters would be telling the OP to run for the hills.

Never mind 'be kind' - this woman has serious issues that are not for her friends to fix.

Why on earth would OP make those promises? Absolutely crazy foundations to continue this friendship on. And agreeing to being recorded is just lunacy...

First of all, that is not the behaviour of a healthy individual or friendship, secondly it reinforces that the behaviour is acceptable and, thirdly, it is entirely unfair on the party OP is talking with who hasn't had the opportunity to agree to being recorded.

Going along with someone's psycho behaviour isn't healthy for anyone. The friend needs help to change not help with continuing this behaviour.

I never said other people couldn’t hold a different view where have you got that from?
I gave my view which presumably the op is mildly interested in or why post if you don’t want different views?
The irony of saying I lack empathy whilst being rude to me.

What promises? I haven’t mentioned promises, but I would respond with kindness. Ofc op has already said this is really messed up behaviour (which it is) but if she is a close and otherwise good friend, I would talk it through with her. It sounds like she isn’t terribly well, and struggling. I wouldn’t punish her further by being unnecessarily cruel.

That OP won't talk about her and the friend is welcome to record her as often as she likes. That's enabling this irrational behaviour. It won't help anyone and is far beyond kindness.

Kindness is making the friend aware that her behaviour goes beyond what is normal and that she needs help. Kindness would be assisting her in finding that help. Kindness might also include stepping back whilst the friend figures things out.

She hasn’t stolen OP’s life savings! I think a bit of perspective is wise. You do realise we are ALL filmed and recorded all day every day everywhere!

Oof. Your head is really in the wrong place.