AIBU to think my ex DH is being reasonably generous, or am I being taken for a ride, as a friend is telling me

[Writer034]

This is a money one (apologies for length, I don't want to drip feed). I'd really like some thoughts around whether my ex DH is doing enough. I usually think he is, but there's someone in my life who thinks he's really not, and sometimes I feel conflicted.

I split up with ex DH in 2017, we share DD (15) and DS (13) on a 50/50 basis. Since the split, my ex DH has been paying £500pm in child support, which about 6 months ago was increased to £600pm to account for cost of living increase.

(I realise some will say 50/50 should mean no child support, but I have actually sought legal advice on this and apparently this isn't necessarily true. If you want to know more about what I was adviced, drop me a DM)

There were no assets to divide at the time of the divorce. We didn't use solicitors, there is no maintenance, only this - completely voluntary - child support. When we did consent order for finances, for reasons I won't go into I didn't seek legal advice and I didn't ask anything from him, he has a small pension from having been in the army for 6 years when he was young, and a business which we started and ran for some years together, but realistically it only became really profitable in 2021. I didn't ask for anything, only for child support to continue. His business has for at least 2-3 years now been bringing about £350k per annum (and the two years before that definitely over £100k). He drives a Porche, has now bought a nice detached house for 450k, etc. Takes his new DP to 5* spa hotels every other weekend so I know money is abundant his end. I earn £53k in my main job and have for the last few years earned £7-10k on top from some additional work; I also receive Child Benefit (I had to pay some of that back, when I went over the threshold, although now threshold is £60k and I've dropped my extra work because, on 40% tax, it's not really worth it)

On top of this £600pm, ex DH pays £180 per month for the coach my DD takes to school (it's a grammer school in another town with its own transport), a few expensive things for the DC (my DS got a £900 mountain bike as this is his passion, my DD got some £750 concert tickets (don't ask!!!!), she's also got two school trips - one ski trip £1500 and one to the US costing over £2500, he has paid / is paying for all of that). Also, DD has recently needed some physio so he's paying £80 per appointment. He paid for one year of her having a tutor to help her get into grammar school, I think that was £50 per week.

He is more or less funding my son's expensive mountain biking hobby which has a lot of costs associated with it.

We usually split birthdays and Xmas presents. He will usually contribute something towards school uniforms. At times he has contributed a bit towards their clothing like winter jackets. He gives them each £25pm pocket money.

I give them also £25 each pocket money per month, I pay for dentists, hairdressers, almost all of their clothing and shoes (phenomenally expensive for teenagers nowadays!), buy all birthday presents for their friends, I pay for all the smaller school trips (this amounts to at least a few hundred per child per year, or double that if there's a residential), and I generally do loads more with the kids: I take them on holidays abroad (he takes them on one hol abroad that business pays for, and one caravan week in the UK), theatre and concert trips to London, theatre and cinema locally, out for meals and days out. He doesn't really do any of that. I realise that between us the kids have a good life (believe it or not, my kids are still just about average, in schools they go to).

The issue is this: with all that he does which might sound generous, ex DH probably still contributes a maximum of around £1000 per month in total, against his income of £30,000 per month, and the fact he definitely spends more on his romantic life in a month than he does on his DC.

Is 1/30th of your income, towards your kids, enough?

I know some men pay nothing, but I also know some women whose ex DH earn well and the women don't even have a job, they get maintenance of £5k a month or more, whereas I work full time (and have for a few years had extra work on the side, for purely financial reasons). I'm not saying I would want to not work. I'm just wondering, prompted by this friend of mine, whether my ex should be paying more. (The CMS calculation, by the way, would only work for half of his income, it doesn't go above that. I could go to court, but absolutely don't want to do that, it would ruin so many other things.)

Please tell me how you'd feel, if this was you. Would you feel fortunate, or not quite?

Honestly, you need to make peace with what you’re getting now. Don’t rock the boat, let him continue to pay and contribute as he’s doing and stop comparing. the ‘friends’ telling you this won’t pick up the pieces if you pursue this further and lose out. Thread carefully.
This post is what comes to mind when I read yours, I can’t find her update post but it didn’t go well for her in the end.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5506932-ex-disputing-cms-and-making-rival-child-benefit-claim-in-5050-care?page=1

I think completely reasonable and its good you work, cms doesnt last forever. Who increased it from 500 to 600? Did you ask or he volunteer?

I think you need to consider his total contribution. Those costs and expenses would either need to be paid or gone without if he didn’t cover them, most kids aren’t getting private physio, or expensive bikes and trips - if he didn’t pay would you be able to afford them? You’re invested in your kids having a good quality of life, and by all accounts they do, because he funds a lot of the extra costs and expenses so yes, they could as child support.

Op in the nicest possible way (honestly), everyone has to go to savings for anything like eating out or theatre tickets, they’re special occasions. And actually there’s a thread now about the cost of tickets everywhere which I said is now equivalent to what going on holiday used to be! Unfortunately it’s just life now

OP, you say he earns £30k per month? Is this post tax?

If he does earn that, he won't just have it transferred into a current account for disposable income. He will have most of it invested. Maybe it's all invested into another company and he lives off dividends?

I think his financial affairs are not going to be as straightforward as they sound. He might have set up trust funds for the kids, but not told you?

How would you know his exact post tax earnings? Has he told you?

Honestly, you need to find a way to stop thinking about it and move on. I say that gently as someone who has been divorced and now has adult kids - so I've been through all of this. And yes, at times it can feel unjust or unfair but you need to stop raking over it and move on. It's just a path to bitterness.

Your kids have a good standard of living. £600 a month (aside from all the extras), when you yourself only have them 50% of the time should be plenty.

You don't earn a bad salary. It's not your ex's job now to fund lifestyle/trips and meals out on your time - he does that on his own time when he has them half the month.

No it's before tax.

He has all sort of stuff in place to structure this for tax optimisation (let's use that euphemism). I mean, I don't blame him, but I can say with certainty that someone like me with a salary in the 40% bracket can't do anything to reduce my tax burden, and he definitely can and does - he doesn't pay 40% tax that's for sure :-)

I think the answer to your question is a fairly unanimous no. At the moment, you have an amicable set up that doesn’t involve counting every bean. There’s a generosity of spirit that will likely grow with time. He’ll probably buy them their first cars, pay their university rent etc. If you ever find yourself struggling, he’d probably help you out. I’d be inclined to keep things as they are, as you don’t appear to be struggling and your kids have a good life.

I think the only way to approach this is to suggest some kind of annual co-parenting review meeting - how is it all going, what can be improved, review kids needs including costs (what’s going to change with school this year? what else is coming up that’s new? savings for uni? what’s a fair way for you both to cover those?)

That way you’re making decisions together based on the needs of your kids. It shouldn’t be about getting more contributions, it should be about maintaining an effective co-parenting relationship for the benefit of your kids.

Unfortunately what he spends on romance is irrelevant.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5340011-child-benefit-rival-claim-ex-partner-earning-loads-part-2?page=1

@Writer034 , these are the threads being referred to.

Thank you. I guess my concern is that he doesn't. I feel that all the 'quality of life' stuff comes from my side, except for the one holiday a year abroad he takes them on which is mostly funded by this company for which he has a distributor business (it's like an annual reward / bonus). But otherwise, yes I take your point - thank you.

You do know what to think. Ignore your pot-stirring friend.

It’s also tax-free, so the equivalent of earning an extra £1,000 a month or £12K a year.

He's your ex. You're not entitled to more of his money because you used to be in a relationship and you have kids. He has the kids half the time AND gives you money and covers the big expenses. I bet any other big expenses that come up he would too. If you're on a much lower income, instead of asking for more money in general which might get his back up, just say 'school uniforms need buying and they are so expensive. Could you cover them'? etc and stuff like that.

The legendary poster who I mentioned upthread went down that route - she maintained she did more child-related admin tasks. It spectacularly backfired on her, as practically every poster advised her it would.

I think you have to completely set aside his current income or net wealth and think about the actual real costs that your children have. He has them 50 percent of the time too. Therefore if you add up all the costs of the children and divide by 2, it will probably come out that he is paying over 50 percent towards everything they need.
i imagine things like driving lessons, first car, help with housing deposits will also come from him in the future based on how he is doing things now.
it sounds like he is paying way over 50 percent of all their costs right now, so really it is not fair for him at this point.
housing is split 50 50 already so there is no additional concerns there.
its about what it costs in stuff, trips, hobbies etc for the children and he is actually paying more than 50 50 from what you said.
his current income and his lifestyle so don’t think are anything to do with this.
if everything is covered already, what would the extra money be for ???

You listed a good £6/7k of stuff he’s paid for outside of his holiday a year, along with tutoring and physio costs which contribute to quality of life. I know it’s hard when you’re working very hard for what feels like much less, but don’t fall into the trap of minimising what he does when he’s more than meeting your kids needs. They sound very privileged kids which is a credit to you both.

I've read a lot worse on MN so I think I would probably more or less try to make my peace with it. But pragmatically speaking it sounds like he might be open to reasonable requests e.g. buying shoes, maybe paying towards other school trips and later on supporting them through university of they want to go. If you're stressed about the cost of food then I don't think it would hurt to ask.

But the quality of life stuff doesn't all come from your side?

He's paying for overpriced mountain bikes and concert tickets and expensive school trips - which are all demonstrations of a good quality of life for kids that age. It's not all about holidays (which one a year, is more than a lot of people manage!)

Oh, wow. Omg. That one went badly!! No, that won't be me - I'm not that way inclined, but even if I were, that story would scare me.
The only thing I get is that the lady in question believed in the 'primary carer' angle - that's exactly the same information I got from a family law expert I paid £250 for an hour's chat. So I can understand why she thought she was on more secure ground than she really was. But it does also sound she didn't know when to stop, when it became clear things were not going to go her way.
I do agree that a little bit of extra money is not worth throwing a grenade into your life and coparenting.
But emotion can get the better of us all.

You are fortunate.
You don't want your kids to be spoilt brats. They have their needs met and the two of you are respectful.
That is gold.

You ex will always watch out for the kids.
When adults they will have support. Ex voluntarily is generous.

The amount relative to his income is irrelevant. You’re not married any more so the concept of you having a right to any of his income is just daft.

Also if his business brought in 350k his income isn’t 30k per month. There are business taxes and costs and income tax etc. his net income will be closer to 15 then there’s his own mortgage etc. hardly poverty but not the levels of cash you are talking about

I get where you are coming from OP, it is hard to watch an ex become suddenly rich and successful and not be benefiting from that. But your kids have everything they need and more, he is paying you £600 a month for you having them 50% of the time. He still has to pay for their food, housing costs, outings in his time. Plus all the expensive extras. Your children are very privileged, just because their father has more money doesn’t mean he should spend more on them, nor increase his contribution to you. His finances and how he spends his money on his partner are not your concern as galling as it may be.

Likely when your children grow up he will fund uni, first car and maybe offer them some financial support while they are students. He sounds like a supportive Dad, and you seem to have a healthy coparenting relationship, don’t ruin it, your kids won’t thank you for it trust me.

Sounds like it’s not the amount of maintenance that’s the problem but that fact you signed away half the business without checking with a solicitor… surprised the judge allowed that to happen.

Ok. You make a fair point. Thank you. This is why it can be really valuable getting outside perspective, as otherwise your thoughts and emotions become like an echo chamber.