AIBU to think my ex DH is being reasonably generous, or am I being taken for a ride, as a friend is telling me

[Writer034]

This is a money one (apologies for length, I don't want to drip feed). I'd really like some thoughts around whether my ex DH is doing enough. I usually think he is, but there's someone in my life who thinks he's really not, and sometimes I feel conflicted.

I split up with ex DH in 2017, we share DD (15) and DS (13) on a 50/50 basis. Since the split, my ex DH has been paying £500pm in child support, which about 6 months ago was increased to £600pm to account for cost of living increase.

(I realise some will say 50/50 should mean no child support, but I have actually sought legal advice on this and apparently this isn't necessarily true. If you want to know more about what I was adviced, drop me a DM)

There were no assets to divide at the time of the divorce. We didn't use solicitors, there is no maintenance, only this - completely voluntary - child support. When we did consent order for finances, for reasons I won't go into I didn't seek legal advice and I didn't ask anything from him, he has a small pension from having been in the army for 6 years when he was young, and a business which we started and ran for some years together, but realistically it only became really profitable in 2021. I didn't ask for anything, only for child support to continue. His business has for at least 2-3 years now been bringing about £350k per annum (and the two years before that definitely over £100k). He drives a Porche, has now bought a nice detached house for 450k, etc. Takes his new DP to 5* spa hotels every other weekend so I know money is abundant his end. I earn £53k in my main job and have for the last few years earned £7-10k on top from some additional work; I also receive Child Benefit (I had to pay some of that back, when I went over the threshold, although now threshold is £60k and I've dropped my extra work because, on 40% tax, it's not really worth it)

On top of this £600pm, ex DH pays £180 per month for the coach my DD takes to school (it's a grammer school in another town with its own transport), a few expensive things for the DC (my DS got a £900 mountain bike as this is his passion, my DD got some £750 concert tickets (don't ask!!!!), she's also got two school trips - one ski trip £1500 and one to the US costing over £2500, he has paid / is paying for all of that). Also, DD has recently needed some physio so he's paying £80 per appointment. He paid for one year of her having a tutor to help her get into grammar school, I think that was £50 per week.

He is more or less funding my son's expensive mountain biking hobby which has a lot of costs associated with it.

We usually split birthdays and Xmas presents. He will usually contribute something towards school uniforms. At times he has contributed a bit towards their clothing like winter jackets. He gives them each £25pm pocket money.

I give them also £25 each pocket money per month, I pay for dentists, hairdressers, almost all of their clothing and shoes (phenomenally expensive for teenagers nowadays!), buy all birthday presents for their friends, I pay for all the smaller school trips (this amounts to at least a few hundred per child per year, or double that if there's a residential), and I generally do loads more with the kids: I take them on holidays abroad (he takes them on one hol abroad that business pays for, and one caravan week in the UK), theatre and concert trips to London, theatre and cinema locally, out for meals and days out. He doesn't really do any of that. I realise that between us the kids have a good life (believe it or not, my kids are still just about average, in schools they go to).

The issue is this: with all that he does which might sound generous, ex DH probably still contributes a maximum of around £1000 per month in total, against his income of £30,000 per month, and the fact he definitely spends more on his romantic life in a month than he does on his DC.

Is 1/30th of your income, towards your kids, enough?

I know some men pay nothing, but I also know some women whose ex DH earn well and the women don't even have a job, they get maintenance of £5k a month or more, whereas I work full time (and have for a few years had extra work on the side, for purely financial reasons). I'm not saying I would want to not work. I'm just wondering, prompted by this friend of mine, whether my ex should be paying more. (The CMS calculation, by the way, would only work for half of his income, it doesn't go above that. I could go to court, but absolutely don't want to do that, it would ruin so many other things.)

Please tell me how you'd feel, if this was you. Would you feel fortunate, or not quite?

You're right, actually. Thanks for pointing that out.

On a side note:
You said you set up the business together, can I ask if it's a Limited company and if you are both shareholders?

I ask because of your comment about he minimises his tax situation. If he is taking some of the money as dividends, all shareholders must receive equal dividends dependant on share holding. eg if you are both equal shareholders you would need to take the same amount as dividends.

The reason I am asking is if it is a limited company, you are a shareholder and he is the only one receiving dividends, then it is a form of tax evasion and it will be clamped down on. I'm not sure if you would be culpable as well but there could be hefty repayments to be made and, at the very least, you will lose what he is giving you. As a shareholder though, you might be held accountable on a joint and separable basis

There was a month in which I sent him itemised list of like over £1000 spent on various things for the kids, and he then said he'd increase it.

Credit to you OP @Writer034 because you are actually listening and taking things on board (not like the poster on that other thread...things might have gone differently for her if she had tried to be more balanced).

It was a distributorship in both of our names, and I agreed to taking my name off it. I have no further rights in the business, but also no legal liability.

Thank you for checking, though, I appreciate the caution.

I would make peace with it, OP.

I earn a bit less than you (after a fairly recent pay rise), live in London, have 50/50 and two teen DC.

It sounds like you have a much nicer lifestyle than we do. It's my birthday coming up and I've decided not to take DC out to dinner because I just can't justify the cost. We only eat out very rarely and we don't do as many trips and nice things.

Due to 50/50 there's nothing extra from XH and we have kept our joint account. We pay equally into it each month and use it to cover clubs, school trips (day trips; we can't afford any of the big abroad trips), essential clothing etc.

We had a clean break. So, if either one of us won the lottery then the other would have no claim on it. I think you could apply that a bit here. Although you contributed to the business initially, it's only several years after your separation that he's 'hit the jackpot ' with it.

Your XH seems to be quite generous in terms of school trips and one-off costs.

A PP mentioned university and they had a really good point.

My DC are a bit older than yours and my oldest is looking at universities. XH says he won't be able to contribute to supporting DC1 at uni. I find this hard to believe, as he was earning more when we split than I am now seven years later, but that's what he says. I'm currently living as if I hadn't had my full pay rise and trying to put aside as much as possible to help DC1, but I am quite worried about the costs involved in uni. If your XH is likely to be able to fund accommodation (for example) then that will be a huge help to your DC.

It sounds to me as though your XH does contribute to your DC's individual needs/wants in that respect. So, given your fairly comfortable lifestyle, I would leave things be and, if anything, have a conversation with your XH about saving towards university. Ask him if he's thought about it yet and suggest planning for it if not. That would be a useful financial conversation to have about your DC's future needs.

Thank you. My main intention was to try to separate emotion from facts, so other people's opinions help greatly.

OP, outside of the fact that it sounds like your ex is paying a good voluntary amount, plus has them 50% of the time, plus pays for some expensive one offs- I think you need to be careful what you hope to achieve here given the ages of your children.

Your ex sound like he's genuinely trying to do the right thing by his children, but he won't be legally required to contribute anything in a relatively short time given their ages.

Considering his current contributions I'd definitely encourage you to not rock the boat and just keep your fingers crossed he continues to be as forthcoming with funds after the kids reach the cut off- otherwise you'll find yourself with more of a gap in your family budget.

I think it's tempting her to conflate the 'fairness' of your disparity in income with the 'fairness' of his contribution to your shared kids. I can understand when you have been a unit and you have joint children that it might very well feel very unfair that you are struggling to make ends meet when he could contribute more and it would make no difference to him. However, you are not a unit anymore and whilst he has an obligation to support his kids, he doesn't have an obligation to lighten your load IYSWIM.

If you have a good relationship could you have am open conversation with him? Not starting from the premise that he is not doing enough, but rather from the premise that he probably is doing enough but given you are struggling could he take on a bit more of the costs associated with raising them.

Have you done a detailed cashflow so you can see how much you spend on them? You gave a long list of things you pay for - knowing what this adds up to might help the conversation. He will probably react better to specifics rather than 'I'd like a bit more money please'.

I think as a pp mentioned you do need to be discussing University contingency plans with him. Your eldest is 13, so five years is not too long to put aside a decent sum to cover university fees, accommodation, living expenses etc. Plus driving lessons and first cars/ insurances which are also looming issues.

He sounds as though the extras that your children enjoy are as important to him as well as to them, so I imagine he has started to think about expenses going forward, but no harm in raising the issue.

You are earning enough to support yourself, and the children comfortably especially with the extra support he gives. To be honest you are sounding very jealous of the spa days and fancy lifestyle the second wife is enjoying. There were probably very good reasons why you split up in the first place, maybe you ought to be thankful that whatever the reasons were they are no longer your problem but hers.

Leopards and spots remember.

I'm sorry your situation is tight. I really sympathise. We are outside of London which helps, in London this kind of salary isn't enough, if you're a one income household. I hope you win the lottery, though! I'm sure he would share it with you, or help out somehow, if he did. Not many people would be so mean to say f* you to the other parent, if they suddenly came into huge wealth.

Of course he could give more, but if you push it he might give less, so there's nothing you can do about it really. It sounds like the kids have a nice life and have everything they need, and a lot they want besides.

I think it is “Not quite”.

I think it unfortunate you did not see a good solicitor when you split up, especially because of the business you started together. Could you speak to one now just to get a better perspective?

I do t think that’s the question.
Its more around - if they were still together or he was the RP, what lifestyle would they have?

The thing a lot of people forget, or simply don’t realise, about going to court for maintenance is that one year and a day after the order is issued, the paying party can go back to CMS, they order based on what they can do, and then you have to go back to court again to have it increased.

When I worked for CMS there were people who had to bounce back to court every single year.

Your friend is massively underestimating the value of the good Co-parenting relationship you have and the value of that going forward as the children get older.

You're so right here. I am conflating the two. There are complicated feelings here. We struggled a lot when we were together, but he always promised me that one day he'd "make it" and everything would be ok. Eventually I left the marriage (for different reasons) and, even after divorce, he kept saying to me "you don't have to worry about money, because when I start to earn a lot of money, no one will ever have to worry about money again".
However, now that he is finally earning that money he's been promising for 20 years, his priority has shifted to his new partner and her young child.
I guess I am doing what you say - conflating the feeling of unfairness of that, with the actual issue of how much he specifically pays for his DC as such.

Of course they need to be factored in, because they are child related expenses that would need to be covered if he wasn't paying for them. If he increased the amount you're labelling as 'pure child support' by £180 but said that you now needed to cover the cost of the coach from the maintenance you'd have 'more' child support but be no better off.

Given it's 50:50 and he's happy to cover all these extra expenses fully rather than expect 50% from you (or even any sort of contribution) is good going op.

Your extra expenses (presents for friends/hair/dentist/clothes (why are they not spending pocket money on clothes/shoes if there is something particularly phenomenally expensive they want?)) are surely not costing you on a monthly basis anywhere near the £180 a month he's paying for the coach, plus the physio/tutor/hobbies. You're paying a few hundred pounds per year for smaller trips while he's covering the ones in the thousands.

Do they take all their clothes back and forth, does he not have any that he's bought that stay at his? Do they have phones? If so who pays for those?

Given he also has food/bills to pay for for the 50% time he has them, I'm really struggling to see what the £600 is covering other than a very generous contribution to making your life a bit easier/enjoyable. He is covering way more than 50% of what the kids 'cost'. The fact he has residual disposable income is not your concern, it's not his responsibility to find your lifestyle just because he's earning more now. You're able to take the kids out for days in London, I'm assuming if they're costing £500 for tickets etc then you could choose a less premium seat?

It does feel like you want him to cover more of the kids costs so that you can have more money leftover to spend on you/your lifestyle but that's not his responsibility.

Frame it this way - if he doubled the amount he pays you to £1200 tomorrow, what choices would you be making differently? Would the kids benefit from those, and are they benefits that they would like/need (such as a hobby/club that they are keen to do, able to say yes to reasonable childhood things that you're currently saying no to) or luxury /upgrades (such as ditching wagamamas for the Ivy)

Agree with this!

If you have a good amicable co parenting relationship I would say the only way forward would be to have a honest conversation with him. You have mentioned you worry about money, and that you are struggling a little by the end of the month. Say you appreciate all that he provides for the children but if there was any possibility he could increase what he provides. You may be surprised.

I think that ship has sailed! But thank you.

I think you've identified the real issue. You're grieving the broken promise rather than the child maintenance itself, and that's completely understandable.

But after a divorce, neither party is entitled to the same financial lifestyle they would have had if the marriage had continued. From what you've described, your children are well cared for and he's sharing parenting 50/50. Beyond that, what he does with the rest of his money whether it's cruises or buying his new partner diamond tiaras is ultimately his choice.

The more important question is whether you've planned for when the children turn 18 and is that financial support is likely to end.

Kids are almost always going to have less of a good lifestyle if their parents split up compared to if they stayed together, though, because of the need to pay for two homes. If DH and I split up we would both struggle a lot more financially and the kids would live across two much smaller houses, because currently we pay the mortgage together. That's not the same as things not being fair.

Sorry, edited to add: I mean, less good of a lifestyle materially/financially. It may be a better lifestyle emotionally if their parents were very unhappy together and much happier apart.

Ah, that's a super complicated question. If we were still together, then their lifestyle would be much, much higher than it is now. If he was the resident parent, then not so much as he's on a day to day basis much tighter in how he manages money. For example, he has a gym membership and my daughter loved it when he took her there one day as a guest, but he wouldn't get her a gym membership (even though they take 15 year olds). I then took out a membership for her in my gym (I had to lie that she is 16, they don't ask to see any ID thankfully). It's often like this. He used to do a Fri take away for them for a couple of years, and I adopted that habit as I didn't want them to have different experience across the two homes. Now, he has told them no more take away as it's a waste of money. But I'm still doing it (it's just the two of them - honestly, it costs £20 in total, I just don't understand why he would stop it).
He splurges on luxury lifestyle with his DP, so when he's being really tight with the kids which he can be in some respects, I feel both hurt and angry and let down. But I think he just thinks he's doing enough.
I hate the idea that a father should ever think "I'm doing enough". Wouldn't you, as a man, take massive pride in saying not only do I do enough, I go over and above, as that's my duty as a dad? (and my duty as a mum - but I do virtually everything I can for them)

Yes you should factor it in, why wouldn't you, because it would be perfectly possible for him not to pay for them. Child maintenance is usually regarded as covering all the expenses associated with the child, and he's under no obligation to pay for any of the extras. With 50:50 care it does sound to me that you're getting a reasonable deal and your friend is just stirring.

I'd say your discomfort is probably much more to do with feeling conscious that you made the wrong decision in signing away your rights to the business. It may feel unfair that you shared the early hard work but not the financial rewards, and in truth it probably is pretty unfair, but you can't correct that decision now. As a PP said, you'd be better off keeping an amicable relationship with him and encouraging him to set up savings for uni or future house deposits for the kids, it would benefit them much more in the long run than a few more quid now to spend in wagamama.

Thank you. Things are tight, but manageable. We know people who have more disposable income and people who have less and my DC do not complain about anything. I think we have quite a nice life.

And actually, I wouldn't take a penny from XH for myself. The nicest thing he ever did for me was to leave me. But that's not relevant here!

Though I sincerely hope that if he won the the lottery tomorrow he would pay all DC's uni costs and not only offer his half (wouldn't put it past him!).

Anyway, I think you've had some good suggestions from posters. The point about what happens at 18 is also a good one. If your XH then cuts his payments to you by half and contributes directly to DC1, will you manage your finances? You'll also lose child benefit for them at 18. Do you have a plan to increase earning capacity or manage some other way at that point?

Also, worst case scenario, if your XH dropped dead tomorrow, I imagine he would provide for your DC. But unless you know the terms of his will, that might also leave you £600/month short.

So, regardless of the rights and wrongs of anything else, I think it's sensible to think about how to manage without the additional support because you never know what's going to happen.