AIBU to think my ex DH is being reasonably generous, or am I being taken for a ride, as a friend is telling me

[Writer034]

This is a money one (apologies for length, I don't want to drip feed). I'd really like some thoughts around whether my ex DH is doing enough. I usually think he is, but there's someone in my life who thinks he's really not, and sometimes I feel conflicted.

I split up with ex DH in 2017, we share DD (15) and DS (13) on a 50/50 basis. Since the split, my ex DH has been paying £500pm in child support, which about 6 months ago was increased to £600pm to account for cost of living increase.

(I realise some will say 50/50 should mean no child support, but I have actually sought legal advice on this and apparently this isn't necessarily true. If you want to know more about what I was adviced, drop me a DM)

There were no assets to divide at the time of the divorce. We didn't use solicitors, there is no maintenance, only this - completely voluntary - child support. When we did consent order for finances, for reasons I won't go into I didn't seek legal advice and I didn't ask anything from him, he has a small pension from having been in the army for 6 years when he was young, and a business which we started and ran for some years together, but realistically it only became really profitable in 2021. I didn't ask for anything, only for child support to continue. His business has for at least 2-3 years now been bringing about £350k per annum (and the two years before that definitely over £100k). He drives a Porche, has now bought a nice detached house for 450k, etc. Takes his new DP to 5* spa hotels every other weekend so I know money is abundant his end. I earn £53k in my main job and have for the last few years earned £7-10k on top from some additional work; I also receive Child Benefit (I had to pay some of that back, when I went over the threshold, although now threshold is £60k and I've dropped my extra work because, on 40% tax, it's not really worth it)

On top of this £600pm, ex DH pays £180 per month for the coach my DD takes to school (it's a grammer school in another town with its own transport), a few expensive things for the DC (my DS got a £900 mountain bike as this is his passion, my DD got some £750 concert tickets (don't ask!!!!), she's also got two school trips - one ski trip £1500 and one to the US costing over £2500, he has paid / is paying for all of that). Also, DD has recently needed some physio so he's paying £80 per appointment. He paid for one year of her having a tutor to help her get into grammar school, I think that was £50 per week.

He is more or less funding my son's expensive mountain biking hobby which has a lot of costs associated with it.

We usually split birthdays and Xmas presents. He will usually contribute something towards school uniforms. At times he has contributed a bit towards their clothing like winter jackets. He gives them each £25pm pocket money.

I give them also £25 each pocket money per month, I pay for dentists, hairdressers, almost all of their clothing and shoes (phenomenally expensive for teenagers nowadays!), buy all birthday presents for their friends, I pay for all the smaller school trips (this amounts to at least a few hundred per child per year, or double that if there's a residential), and I generally do loads more with the kids: I take them on holidays abroad (he takes them on one hol abroad that business pays for, and one caravan week in the UK), theatre and concert trips to London, theatre and cinema locally, out for meals and days out. He doesn't really do any of that. I realise that between us the kids have a good life (believe it or not, my kids are still just about average, in schools they go to).

The issue is this: with all that he does which might sound generous, ex DH probably still contributes a maximum of around £1000 per month in total, against his income of £30,000 per month, and the fact he definitely spends more on his romantic life in a month than he does on his DC.

Is 1/30th of your income, towards your kids, enough?

I know some men pay nothing, but I also know some women whose ex DH earn well and the women don't even have a job, they get maintenance of £5k a month or more, whereas I work full time (and have for a few years had extra work on the side, for purely financial reasons). I'm not saying I would want to not work. I'm just wondering, prompted by this friend of mine, whether my ex should be paying more. (The CMS calculation, by the way, would only work for half of his income, it doesn't go above that. I could go to court, but absolutely don't want to do that, it would ruin so many other things.)

Please tell me how you'd feel, if this was you. Would you feel fortunate, or not quite?

Yeah. I should do that, really. Sigh [thank you for being sensible - I mean it]

You say it isn’t extravagant but everything you’ve described is sounding extravagant to me, even if you have to slum it in Wagamamas from time to time.

What more do you want from the man, blood? He should be claiming half of the child benefit

A bit of blood would be ok by me?

:-) Just joking - I thought I'd just lighten the tone a bit.

Fairness is such a subjective concept, that's exactly why I thought I'd come here and ask what others think. Thank you.

Your children’s needs are well and truly met by their father

I’m glad you’re taking people’s points on board op. I have to say though - and I mean this to be constructive - I think your attitude to money sounds a little loose. Your husband has become better off recently yes but he’s being careful with what he spends that money on. A few years ago, eating out and a trip to London could maybe be seen as a fairly normal part of living a nice lifestyle. Now though, with cost increases all around, it is unaffordable for many people.

I think you need to adjust your mindset on necessities vs luxuries. Your DC need to learn the value of money. Why can’t they contribute to a takeaway or Starbucks if they want them? In a few years, they will be earning and paying for themselves - what have you taught them about living within their means?

I don’t think your ex should pay more. I think you should learn to be better with the income you have and think about saving for the future.

If you're happy with the arrangement and it works for both of you, your kids have a nice life and he contributes an amount you are fine with, I don't see any reason to change that. Everyone's needs are met and your children don't go without, they get lots of nice things and experiences. I would not listen to your friend - it may cause bad feelings and rock the current amicable relationship you have with your ex.

“I give them also £25 each pocket money per month, I pay for dentists, hairdressers, almost all of their clothing and shoes (phenomenally expensive for teenagers nowadays!), buy all birthday presents for their friends, I pay for all the smaller school trips (this amounts to at least a few hundred per child per year, or double that if there's a residential), and I generally do loads more with the kids: I take them on holidays abroad (he takes them on one hol abroad that business pays for, and one caravan week in the UK), theatre and concert trips to London, theatre and cinema locally, out for meals and days out. He doesn't really do any of that.”

But most of that you are doing with the £600 he gives you a month.

Turn the table around, if you were to get a promotion or a new job and double your income, would you want to start giving him money?

I think he’s being generous with the £600pcm considering the 50/50 and the business has only been going well long after your split and he covers all the children’s very expensive activities on top of that. He sounds like he is providing for his children very well (as he should be).

That's not a bad point.

FWIW, I've started on the Rebel School of Finance program, it's free and I've seen many divorced women rave about how it's helped them get the most out of their money. I'm not going to pretend I'm amazing at managing money - but I can also say, hand on heart, that I don't get any luxuries for myself personally.

Your friend is a shit stirrer and I’d not listen to a word. Your figures sound off too and someone with a monthly income of 30k isn’t going to live in a 450k house. That’s my take home pay and you can add a zero to the value of my property.

Hi @Writer034 I understand what you're driving at. He provides financially good support for higher end core items. But he doesn't spend on them as lavishly on what he deems non-essentials as he does on himself and partner. That's where his mentality differs. He see's that he's spent x amount on his kids and thats a generous amount of money and providing for their basic needs. You're looking at it he should be giving them the same lifestyle that his money affords him and his partner whilst they are with him, taking them on non-company foreign holiday/trips etc. You probably spend your disposable income evenly between you and the kids or more on them.

My ex can't afford to take my daughter on holiday during school holidays, instead he has multiple holidays abroad during term time without my daughter. He wouldn't think well I can only afford one holiday.

I would be very careful about ruining what seems like a reasonable and amicable agreement because someone has told you that you could get more. It's actually very unlikely you'll be better off by pushing this to a court order as most of them are notoriously low ball amounts.
Your ex sounds as though he's paying for quite a bit and seems keen to support his children. It's extremely rare for a 50-50 arrangement to give rise to this amount of financial compensation. Be very careful before you screw it all up by being greedy.

Thanks @Writer034I am glad you see my point. I have heard a lot about Rebel from my DH and think improving your financial literacy is always going to benefit.

I really agree with @Sashimiandhisthunderpaws too - it seems very important to you for your DC to have a good lifestyle and you spend on them before you spend on yourself. Your ex seems to have different priorities.

Do remember though - your don’t have to spend money to show your DC love - they will know deep down who spends time with them and who knows them well enough to choose their favourite foods and clothes etc. Maybe try to build in some low cost quality time with them before they start spending all their time with friends and eventually fly the nest?

But no, I don't think you should ask for more money. Unfortunately he's not going to change his attitude to "his" money, that he wants to spend on himself/partner.

Sounds like the children are very well provided for and his current wealth and how he spends it isn't your concern atm, the children are far from going g without.

Would you suggest he saves more for them with his assets as what else could he buy them? More stuff? Say you were together and he had this money, you wouldn't automatically start spending more on the kids just because you had more money surely? Their wants and needs are met, and perhaps he is saving for things like weddings and house purchases in future for them. The point is as long as the kids remain as financially supported as they are, and he has them 50/50 then it's not a concern where the rest of his money is.

Does he definitely earn 350k or does the business make this? If he’s seriously paying himself a 350k salary each year that must be an almighty successful business.

Ha this is a good point actually, he’s essentially funding everything as it is.

This reads like you’ve blamed a friend and really it’s you who wants more. Your numbers are also muddled, as it appears you’ve not taken tax into account.and I’ve no idea how you know so much about his income and how he spends his money, some of it sounds like jealousy.

if it’s 50 50 them financially he is pulling his weight, you are 50 percent responsible for the kids, and can’t be asking him to pay for your share as well

Huh, he provides well foe his kids, has them half the time and what she does he funds,

Honestly, I wouldn't rock the boat. There is 50-50 child custody split, and he is self-employed.

I think you're right. His money is not your money. He has his kids 50/50, pays a lot towards their hobbies and trips and still sends money to you. He's meeting obligations to his children.

I divorced a very high earning man after years of being a SAHM and helping significantly with his career (not just by providing childcare, but by actually doing quite a lot of his admin work and entertaining his clients). I got 54% of our assets (after we'd put money into a separate account to fund their private school fees) and no more than the max CMS payment for our EOW situation. I detested my ext for many reasons, including this tightness and stubbornness over recognising that I had given up my career and earning power to boost his.

54% of assets was enough to create an income for me to give kids a really good lifestyle (though we did mid range holidays, whilst he took them to swanky all inclusive hotels in Caribbean and Maldives). Now they are grown up I live a far simpler lifestyle than he does so I don't have to work again (I have chronic health conditions that would make it difficult).

BUT: I also negotiated in the divorce that his share of a family trust that doesn't pay out until his now v elderly stepparent dies goes right to them. So I know they will be OK and will get on property ladder through that. And that stopped me from feeling that our financial agreement was terribly unfair. I won't be able to leave kids a huge inheritance or help them with deposits, but this trust will, and so I'm not at risk of him not sharing his assets fairly between our kids and his new wife and her much younger children. I am pissed off at fact he's moved house since they went to uni and if they go to stay with him now in holidays they sleep in one of his multiple guest rooms whilst her kids have their own rooms (in my house they have their own room which I use for guests when they are not here - a small but important distinction emotionally). But whilst he's pretty much abandoned them emotionally, I know he can't abandon them financially.

I think that might be what is niggling at you - the fact he can abandon them financially in the future and they (not you) might not get their fair share of his wealth

There's no "his" about it. It's HIS!

It sounds like the kids have a lovely life. And he is paying the one off big spends like school trips abroad and mountain bikes. As you are comfortable (even if not loads spare) I think current situation is fine.

If my and dh increased our wages I wouldnt spend loads on my kids month to month . We might have a few more holidays but generally it would be saved for future.

Maybe ex dh will help more with weddings/house deposits/uni costs who knows. It sounds like he is fairly generous with them (other than gym membership).

Tread carefully. There are at least two other threads where OP persued CMS in a 50/50 arrangement because ex had more money and a better standard of living and ended up losing her child benefit and paying HIM child support. She was warned by literally everyone on mumsnet not to rattle the Cage.

I think the DH has been reasonable. but your overdraft worried me.

Would his buisiness have been as successful if you handn't put time and effort into it? you put that in presumably underpaid since it was still growing at the time. He's got the reward for that period when you did that, but possibly you haven't, you said there were no assets. Also your career and salary must have taken a hit during the childcare years.

It's the savings that need looking at .. If you are overdrawn to keep up the expectations- maybe so your DC can be on the same level as others at their schools - then you are not able to build up savings for them, or you... which you are really going to need as they get older.

i'd be very wary of spoiling a good relationship, but maybe you could have a chat with him about future costs.

Its fair enough to consult about planning ahead, to uni, or training and beyond, when they need help with transport and accomodation or even extra training, unexpected medical bills.. or even getting married. It's worth considering how that can be managed... and then at least you are looking ahead and not trying to spring things on him. Have you ever discussed if he will be including the DC in his will? Although I appreciate that this is all very delicate ground to tread. Maybe start introducing it piecemeal.. eg.. looking at student loans and some idea of accomodation /living costs ... to sort of bring it up for discussion in a planning ahead way.