AIBU to think my ex DH is being reasonably generous, or am I being taken for a ride, as a friend is telling me

[Writer034]

This is a money one (apologies for length, I don't want to drip feed). I'd really like some thoughts around whether my ex DH is doing enough. I usually think he is, but there's someone in my life who thinks he's really not, and sometimes I feel conflicted.

I split up with ex DH in 2017, we share DD (15) and DS (13) on a 50/50 basis. Since the split, my ex DH has been paying £500pm in child support, which about 6 months ago was increased to £600pm to account for cost of living increase.

(I realise some will say 50/50 should mean no child support, but I have actually sought legal advice on this and apparently this isn't necessarily true. If you want to know more about what I was adviced, drop me a DM)

There were no assets to divide at the time of the divorce. We didn't use solicitors, there is no maintenance, only this - completely voluntary - child support. When we did consent order for finances, for reasons I won't go into I didn't seek legal advice and I didn't ask anything from him, he has a small pension from having been in the army for 6 years when he was young, and a business which we started and ran for some years together, but realistically it only became really profitable in 2021. I didn't ask for anything, only for child support to continue. His business has for at least 2-3 years now been bringing about £350k per annum (and the two years before that definitely over £100k). He drives a Porche, has now bought a nice detached house for 450k, etc. Takes his new DP to 5* spa hotels every other weekend so I know money is abundant his end. I earn £53k in my main job and have for the last few years earned £7-10k on top from some additional work; I also receive Child Benefit (I had to pay some of that back, when I went over the threshold, although now threshold is £60k and I've dropped my extra work because, on 40% tax, it's not really worth it)

On top of this £600pm, ex DH pays £180 per month for the coach my DD takes to school (it's a grammer school in another town with its own transport), a few expensive things for the DC (my DS got a £900 mountain bike as this is his passion, my DD got some £750 concert tickets (don't ask!!!!), she's also got two school trips - one ski trip £1500 and one to the US costing over £2500, he has paid / is paying for all of that). Also, DD has recently needed some physio so he's paying £80 per appointment. He paid for one year of her having a tutor to help her get into grammar school, I think that was £50 per week.

He is more or less funding my son's expensive mountain biking hobby which has a lot of costs associated with it.

We usually split birthdays and Xmas presents. He will usually contribute something towards school uniforms. At times he has contributed a bit towards their clothing like winter jackets. He gives them each £25pm pocket money.

I give them also £25 each pocket money per month, I pay for dentists, hairdressers, almost all of their clothing and shoes (phenomenally expensive for teenagers nowadays!), buy all birthday presents for their friends, I pay for all the smaller school trips (this amounts to at least a few hundred per child per year, or double that if there's a residential), and I generally do loads more with the kids: I take them on holidays abroad (he takes them on one hol abroad that business pays for, and one caravan week in the UK), theatre and concert trips to London, theatre and cinema locally, out for meals and days out. He doesn't really do any of that. I realise that between us the kids have a good life (believe it or not, my kids are still just about average, in schools they go to).

The issue is this: with all that he does which might sound generous, ex DH probably still contributes a maximum of around £1000 per month in total, against his income of £30,000 per month, and the fact he definitely spends more on his romantic life in a month than he does on his DC.

Is 1/30th of your income, towards your kids, enough?

I know some men pay nothing, but I also know some women whose ex DH earn well and the women don't even have a job, they get maintenance of £5k a month or more, whereas I work full time (and have for a few years had extra work on the side, for purely financial reasons). I'm not saying I would want to not work. I'm just wondering, prompted by this friend of mine, whether my ex should be paying more. (The CMS calculation, by the way, would only work for half of his income, it doesn't go above that. I could go to court, but absolutely don't want to do that, it would ruin so many other things.)

Please tell me how you'd feel, if this was you. Would you feel fortunate, or not quite?

I think it’s relevant to ask, is it enough? Are the needs of your family met? Are you left struggling?

It sounds like you have an amicable relationship and that his current wealth is not a marital asset. I’d also be cautious about what his income verses business turnover are. If he was really taking home £350,000 a year he wouldn’t be buying a £450,000 house.

I tbh k his business bringing in £350k is neither here nor there tbh - although that may be the profit figure on paper, I imagine some will need to be reinvested into the business. If his new partner also works then they have a two income household which will easily enable a better standard of living. I think he sounds generous and doesn’t seem averse to contributing extra when asked so I wouldn’t make waves by trying to claw every little bit that you can from him which may work in your favour in some ways and not in others

I would honestly be tempted not to rock the boat at all .

while I hear what you are saying in regards to his income, he does seem to pay for a lot of extras too. I suppose the extras could stop if you fall out over money. ?

if he’s amiable to it maybe you could suggest setting up a university fund (or similar) for each kid and suggest he puts in something a month ?

if you’re comfortable with the income you’re getting don’t let a friend (who might well be jealous of your arrangement) sway you

I haven’t read totally to the end but my initial thoughts are ‘ if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’. If you are getting sufficient for you and your children’s needs then be happy. It may worth consulting a solicitor to see where you stand legally re things you are entitled to from him and the state.
Please don’t start fixating on his and his partners hotel destinations etc as you just will end up envious and that isn’t going to achieve much.

Turnover is not the same as profit so unless you know for sure he’s taking home £30k per month I’d put that to one side.

do you feel £2k pm covers your children’s costs (assuming you’re matching his £1k)? Bearing in mind he has them 50% of the time.

There was a legendary poster here a few months ago who shared 50/50 care with her husband, if I recall correctly, he was paying some maintenance voluntarily and she went looking for more. It ended badly, I think he stopped paying the maintenance, he looked for child benefit for one of the children and did not legally have to pay maintenance. In the end, I think at least one of the children went to live with their Dad because of all the ill-feeling it caused.

I think he’s being pretty fair - he’s paying a monthly amount, expensive hobbies and school trips. Remember he should at most be covering 50% of costs so the things you’ve listed are your contribution to their living costs.

I’d be wary of letting your friends influence drive you to spoiling what sounds like an amicable arrangement that works for your kids. Some people really think men should be left destitute upon divorce, when really he’s carrying 50% of the caring responsibilities along with making a significant financial contribution.

You could put your details into the CMS calculator but given 50/50 care it might not work in your favour, aside from the loss of goodwill, which is priceless.

I just don't know how to answer that question, because I see both sides: our quality of life is good (although by no means extravagant - for example, when we go to London, tickets for theatre, ballet or something like Cirque du Solei can easily be £500 or more, but we eat in ordinary restaurants like Wagamama or even just Leon). But on a day to day basis, I'm always worrying about money, and I've definitely ended up taking some money out of savings, instead of putting more into savings (I don't have debt other than the mortgage).

By the end of the month, I'm always in my (admittedly small) overdraft, and I generally feel stressed about money. I don't feel our lifestyle is extravagant and, while it might sound great on paper, all of that is essentially just a few things per year: one or two trips to London, one or two holidays. It's not any kind of jetset lifestyle. The rest is normal Monday to Friday, and feeling stressed in the supermarket. My biggest expense, weirdly enough, is just food.

Sometimes I think I simply don't have enough for everytthing I cover, and he should be contributing more, other times I think I'm not great at managing money and someone else would live like a king on this total income.

It sounds like everyone is happy and provided for and everything is amicable so why do anything else? I suspect you could get substantially more from him if you went through CMS, but you're reasonably well paid and your kids sound like they have everything they need and an awful lot of what they want. Is he actually making that much money or is that just turnover?

If this was me, I'd feel fortunate that I was largely in a position to provide for myself and my kids, that they had two loving homes and decent parents who have an amicable co-parenting relationship. I'd only risk upsetting that if I needed additional money and it doesn't sound like you do.

I think the suggestion he start saving for their future from a pp is a great one. Maybe see how he feels about that.

He definitely does earn (at least) that much. The house was his first property, and he basically saved up, I believe, a £100k deposit and then spent loads on renovating the house. I'm sure he will soon move on to a bigger more expensive house, but as a first ever property, this was what he could manage.

The business a type of distribution so there are no employees, capital investment or anything like that. He does have small business premises he commercially rents. His new partner, who he met around 18 months ago, after about 9 months of the relationship left her job to go and work with him, and when he bought this house, moved in with him (she also has a small child). So he's supporting extra people now.

God, that's a terrible story - no, I won't be going down that route. Thank you!

I have never ever heard of a parent who has 50:50 access paying maintenance. I would LOVE to know the legal grounds behind this because as far as I know, he would not be expected to pay a dime if you went through CMS. You have said the £600 PCM is voluntary as well so he’s just doing this to be a decent dad really. He obviously pays for all of their food 50% of the month too. Then on top he takes them on holiday twice a year, pays half towards school uniform, pays for school transport, buys them clothes, pays for your son’s expensive hobby.

I think it’s shocking you’d even contemplate asking for more from him or ever think this isn’t enough. I have a friend who has 3 teens with her ex, he sees them 4 times a year (Boxing Day and one weekend day before or after their birthdays but never overnight. He pays £410 a month, no extras.

I’d also recalculate what you think he’s paying. Between child support and transport fees he’s out £780 per month. Add in physio costs, tutoring it would top £1000/month and then add in expensive holidays and school trips and concert tickets and it’s quickly much more than that given you’ve listed £6k in those costs alone. He also covers two holidays with him a year. That’s not nothing.

Be very careful about letting your friend agitate you into something you may later regret.

The CMS calculator doesn't work for his level of income, unfortunately, so it becomes a guessing game. Court could go either way, but I'm just not willing to go to war over money. I would if we were hungry and he was paying nothing, but obviously that's not the case. This more around that very elusive and totally subjective notion of "fairness"....

To be fair though the money he is paying for maintenance- the other things you mention are just expensive life choices and whijst nice to have aren’t necessary to get by - I appreciate it’s easy to be pissed of, I’m still married but like you we have a business and get by, pretty ok , but not loaded and we don’t own a house either. If we divorced and he was suddenly walloped and having the life of Riley I would be pissed off too in a slightly illogical way - I think you have to square off in your mind that the deal was agreed based on circumstances at the time and it could create bad feeling and look a bit grabby if you try and change the goalposts- I woukd just make sure he paid more than his share on the ‘nice to haves’ I probably would keep it sweet and say x and y woukd live to go to xxx but sadly it’s out of reach - he may step up!!

I agree with this OP. Friends can sometimes lead you into ridiculous circumstances, and they cannot help you if the know amicable set up becomes adversarial.

Two posters here in the last year tried this with their ex’s both ended up much worse off one even lost her children to the father.

Don’t get greedy.

I think you're being greedy and sound bad with money.

I consulted a solicitor on this because the CMS website gave what looked like contradictory info.

This was the advice: there is something called TRUE shared care, which apparently is very rare, and in those cases CMS say no child support is due. It means not just that kids sleep over the same number of nights with each parent, but that each parent picks up half of all other parenting tasks (including admin etc). The more common version is nominal shared care, where one parent still does more than a half. That's me, because I "run their life" in the way most stay at home mums do when they're still married. In those circumstances (which are usually accompanied by that parent also receiving Child Benefit, which I do), CMS have a calculation which takes into account the sleepover arrangements (there's a reduction).
I hope this helps to clarify. In any case, the CMS calculation is on the basis of weekly income and has a 'ceiling', my ex earns about double that, so that calculation would be at court's discretion.

I think a couple of trips to London, a couple of holidays a year is pretty good going on one income with two teenagers. It may be you need to plan for these trips and budget throughout the year so you feel more in control of your money but I think you’re doing well on what you have coming in.

I think he's doing more than enough. I'd not rock the boat.

You asked the question how would you feel? I would feel VERY fortunate.

You sound a bit grabby, you're financially doing very well. He's paying his way and doing his bit, leave him to enjoy the rest of his money in a way that he sees fit.

If you were suddenly to find yourself earning the same as him, or more - would you tell him to reduce what he was contributing?

If you're going into London to spend £500 on ballet tickets and eating in 'ordinary' restaurants like wagamamma you're absolutely not struggling and worrying about money is potentially a sign of a mental health issue

Your Dc are living a privileged lifestyle (even if they have to eat in Wagamama’s) .

OK , I would find it galling that the big ticket items are bestowed by Dad, but you have enough for a foreign holiday and expensive outings.

And support high expectations. Actually it was not ‘extortionate’ to clothe my teens , they knew it wasn’t possible and they had more common sense than to pay for brands for the sake of a label.

I’m not saying it should be a race to the bottom and everyone should dress from charity shops and be grateful. But what would be your motivation for ricking what seems to be a comfortable boat?

Competition with their Dad? Envy?

Be confident in your own parenting and values. Your kids seeing you work hard for your money, and doing the extra job when you did it, is good role modelling. They should be proud of you and looking to build their own resilience and learning the value of money.

Value your independence from your Ex, be proud of what you have done to provide.