Not to stop my son coming over when grandson is in bed.

[wildorangetruck]

I have got my daughter and her little boy who is only one back living at home due a change in circumstances.

My son doesn’t live here anymore but he comes and goes as he pleases as he’s still a young 25 and I know I’m very lucky he pops in.

My daughter struggles to get her son to sleep and can be up there ages setting him and so when her brother comes around it usually wakes him up and she gets frustrated. However my son doesn’t seem phased by this as he doesn’t feel it’s his responsibility to be quiet and not wake him up, he doesn’t come until after 8 and little one goes up at 7.
My daughter suggested he doesn’t come around in the evenings after work and only comes at the weekend before she puts him down but he has always pops in after work, not for long but he does wake the baby when he comes.
I don’t know what to say about it, I want my son to feel welcome anytime, he’s autistic and doesn’t mean to be loud but has a loud laugh and voice so it’s not just a case of asking him to tone it down as that’s just how he is and I am very accepting of this and would never want him to feel he couldn’t be himself in the home but I also understand how frustrating it is for our daughter when he walks in cheerily and his voice wakes him up again.

He doesn’t come in every night just once or twice a week and I love to see him. I don’t want to put restrictions on him because he’s likely to feel unwelcome or an inconvenience and that’s not the case as I’ve always said either can come anytime.

AIBU to think it’s just something she will have to deal with while she’s here or am I not being fair?

Couldn't agree more with this. It honestly just feels to me that you don't want your daughter or grandson living with you and rather than being direct your just making it horrible for them. I actually find it really sad that you have said she's had a change in circumstances (obviously a relationship breakdown) and rather than support her your like going on about making your son feel welcome and comfortable because he has autism? It's like you are trying so hard to make your son feel secure your over looking your daughter's needs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389945724000595

here is some late night reading for you.

The link will lead to this study on poor quality sleep and the effects in infancy

Better read it later when it gets late then hadn't I?

Still hasn't caused my DD issues. In fact she's still bloody nocturnal

Look he is trying as you say he moderates his voice for a little while when reminded.

Can you try having a visual reminder that you show him as soon as he arrives and you keep neatby to point to when his voice starts to.get loud. Maybe a notice on the table or fridge that says has a visual of someone being quiet or making a shhh sound, with the words " quiet voice so baby can sleep" or something like that

It is less tiring and more consistent than reminding him vocally. Eventually he may remember in his own or at least you will have to remind him less often to keep his voice down

I mean, it is. Tell him to keep it down!
Having a baby who is a difficult sleeper is stressful, combine that with whatever circumstance has led your daughter (and grandchild) into moving in with you lus dealing with a loud, inconsiderate brother must be awful. Hopefully they get their own place soon.

If he’s shouting so loud it’s waking a baby up who is upstairs and banging/lumping around to go to the toilet, I hardly think he is tip toeing through the door. I would imagine it more akin to a policeman with a battering ram barging in.

A sample size of 1 isn't particularly sound, especially as you have no way of knowing what your daughter may have been like if she had got the recommended 14h sleep.

If she's experiencing significant difficulties sleeping at night into her mid 30's ("still bloody nocturnal"), that could well be part of the impact

She has no sleeping difficulties. She's a night worker

Bring a natural " night owl" doesn't mean people has sleeping difficulties

And as for " not knowing what she'd be like". Well she's perfectly normal woman woman. None of all these conditions that everyone seems to have nowadays

Being able to moderate your volume is an important life skill.

If he starts getting louder remind him again and again. It isn't like he isn't capable.

(And as the sister of a special needs sibling, favouritism is often cloaked in "but he needs this and she doesn't need anything" type justification. All too often it is just favouritism.)

And the personal abuse continues because you cannot make an argument.

OP has the right to live her own happy life and not shunt her loving son out of that normal, happy life. Babies take priority for their own parents, and to a point for others - but no. You cannot ask someone to upset, avoid or distance themselves from their own son - who let's be clear here has a disability - in order to favour you because you want them to do something nonsensical like make little to no noise in their own home after 7pm.

Just, no.

OP is already favouring the daughter and the grandchild and putting their needs above her own and her son's by allowing them very kindly to live in her home. It is actually nonsensical to expect people to creep around after 7pm in their own home and I can't believe the hysteria around this on this thread, the baby's development will be just fine 🙄. Babies are not rulers, kings and masters, nobody is smoking crack or letting an angry dog be in the room, the child is in zero danger and having to tolerate a little noise is absolutely totally and completely normal, and mother and baby will have to learn to live with it.

So, no. OP cannot live under her daughter's rule and MUST NOT allow her life to be disrupted like this. It is her home, this is a nothing thing, she simply wants to live a normal life in her own home and continue a happy relationship with her son, and nobody is being unfair to the daughter. Her daughter is being entitled and demanding.

If her daughter can't accomodate having to parent her own baby around normal, standard human behaviour then she can always leave. I would imagine, as I said, she'd find it problematic trying to enforce silence after 7pm anywhere else, she'd be in for a sad surprise.

So, no. OP is fine, son is fine, she can ask him to keep it down and if he can, great, and if he can't (it's not won't it's can't for the anti disabled people on the thread) so be it.

Their life is fine, daughter is receiving an enormous favour and must simply accept that real life is not people creeping around in their homes after 7pm because you demand it, for any reason.

OP is doing daughter and grandchild a huge and enormous favour, already favouring her, has a right to a normal life which includes more than just one child's wants, and has a right to see her son and include his needs in her life. She and the son are doing nothing wrong, it's just life.

Hope you're doing ok OP the nonsense on this thread has been pretty astounding tbh. Just keep on keeping on :)

Because her daughter and son are adults! They are not children!

Absolutely bizarre attitude to prioritise adults over an actual child being able to sleep.

Oh sorry I mean to add OP MUST NOT and CANNOT allow her daughter to disrupt her life when she and her son are doing nothing of note at all.

Obviously, despite a couple of people throwing hysterics about a standard method of emphasising words and phrases I will keep using any caps I feel like 😊 If that triggers you, there's something wrong with you - hope this helps 😎

What if having disturbed sleep fairly often impacts your infant grandbaby's neurodevelopment? Would you explain how important it is to respect that there's a sleeping baby in the house? Would you ask him to leave if he gets loud? Or have him use the bathroom before he comes over or visit out in the yard or elsewhere? This is avoidable.

This is a health and development issue. Your son will have to adjust his volume or go home. His disability does not entitle him to interfere with a baby's sleep. You can meet outside or elsewhere if he won't knock off the noise.

An infant cannot advocate for their needs, that's why adults need to do it for them.

if he can't (it's not won't it's can't for the anti disabled people on the thread) so be it.

Its not anti-disability to want people to be able to moderate their behaviour at times. Yes it is more difficult for some people to learn this than others, and depending on their individual abilities, some are going to find it impossible. But OP said herself that he can be quieter, but does not see why he should. That is a choice and a selfish one. Its not doing anyone any favours if people are not taught that sometimes they have to get along with others, if they have any chance of learning this. A young man who can live independently and hold down a job should certainly have the ability to learn skills like moderating volume.

I'm sure she's perfectly lovely, that still doesn't make an anecdotal evidence about one person significant.

Maybe she could have been a brain surgeon, maybe she was always going to be just how she is, maybe there were other influences (eg. Diet, genes, Good schools) that countered the negatives. That's why studies are done on large numbers, so other factors get averaged out.

Yep. And that's why people shouldn't be saying that this baby is being harmed because it's disturbed a couple of times a week. The DD isnt likely to be there long term. Funnily enough after having a quick glance at that study they were assessing at 3 and 12 months. This baby is older than that anyway

I think a mix of people are being unreasonable
your DD needs to realise that it’s your home and you enjoy your DS popping in as and when but when we stayed at my parents with small children we had a note we taped over the doorbell to say “ sleeping baby do not ring - please knock on window gently “ and this meant not only did the guest not ring the doorbell but it was a reminder to be quiet in the hallway until you get into the kitchen/living room with the door shut
if the child is woken up by voices through closed doors/walls then I agree that a white noise machine would really help - or a fan if it’s noisy

Oh and for those pretending they think there is some impact on the baby (you don't think that, obviously, nobody is quite that stupid) let's be exceptionally clear here - a baby being wakened up by noise, even if it was a few times a night (and it's not) is a nothingburger.

You are raging because OP is giving her son a little consideration, you loathe the reality that he has a disability and want OP to kowtow to her daughter to the detriment of herself and her son. It's her daughter who's upset, the baby is absolutely fine

I mean, you already all know this obviously :) Imagine a world where no dogs barked, nobody came home late, nobody fired up a car, nobody had other children in the house making noise and we all lived in a cone of silence 😅

Stop being hysterical. It's nonsensical and genuinely funny.

Night awakenings are extremely common and biologically normal in infants, studies on sleep fragmentation with much more persistent broken sleep than the occasional wake up a couple of times a week have found no negative impact on psychomotor, cognitive, language, or motor development in the first couple of years years from fragmented sleep patterns common in infancy.

And any negative associations you might be able to scrape up will be because babies who are woken up a lot at night (which is not the case here anyway) are generally living in disrupted homes with other issues.

As is NOT the case here.

Brief, occasional noise induced wakings do not equate to sleep deprivation or chronic fragmentation of sleep.

Babies' brains are resilient to normal environmental variations.

Ignore this attempt to sound like they give a shit about the baby, OP. They give a shit about winning the argument because you're not to be allowed to put yourself and your son on an equal footing with your daughter and her baby for whom you are doing an enormous favour.

So again, you're already massively favouring your daughter and her baby. Don't disrupt your lovely relationship with your son and your own life (as you are also expected to creep around in silence after 7pm) for your over entitled daughter.

If she doesn't like your normal, standard, uncontroversial way of life she can always leave :)

I agree she can ask him to keep it down, and should. But most seem to be ignoring the reality that he has a disability and may not be able to do so.

So the choice OP has made is not to exclude and ostracise him, particularly as she does not want to do that and loves her son and his visits.

The baby is fine and the DD is being favoured already by living there. The mother will have to learn to cope with normal life.

Nah. OP is fine with her son and his disability and the tiny adjustments she has to make for him. Loves his visits and has a right to them in her own home. She's indicated she's happy to ask him to make less noise and he likely cannot comply.

So it is indeed inarguably extremely ableist to try to exclude him from his own loving mother's home where he only visits a couple of times a week, because you hate that he has a disability, refuse in a very ableist fashion to understand the simple reality that he may not be able to comply with DDs demands, and want OP to kowtow to her daughter.

Baby is fine, the noise situation is average and normal, people don't live in a cone of silence and OP has also had her DD trying to instruct her to creep around silently in her own home after 7pm.

DD is entitled and being done a huge favour, it's not her home and she will just have to learn to cope.

If the son is living independently and working, he'll be able to learn to moderate his volume and be reminded to be considerate of other people.

If he is not capable of moderating his volume with reminders, that would be different, but I don't believe that's what the OP has described.

It's a preference to carry on as normal and not consider the baby sleeping or the daughter struggling to settle him/her. I don't believe that's considerate of the daughter or her baby at all.

I dont think it would be right to stop the son coming over, not at all.
But reminding him as often as necessary to be considerate and quiet for the baby - absolutely.