AIBU to suggest Wisley as a halfway meeting point with DD?

[Buzyizzy217]

I’m not that familiar with all the abbreviations on here, so apologies.
DD and family live 4 hrs from me. We have a volatile relationship, but during good times, which are usually short lived, I have made the journey twice, staying at hotels overnight.
DS is getting married next year, lives just over an hour from me, 3 from DD, and has told both of us to sort ourselves out as he obviously wants his family there, and on friendly terms. No probs. I have since made the effort to go down to see her and we had a lovely lunch and afternoon out shopping.
However,
I have reached the point in my life where I do struggle to drive longer than 1.5 hrs after a busy day, not an issue if I’m fully rested, but I’ve noticed my concentration levels drop if I’m tired.
We are trying to arrange a meet up as I haven’t actually met my grandchildren, aged almost 4 and 15 mths, yet. I suggested Wisley as it’s about 1.5 hrs for me, altho a bit further for them, and it’s a great family day out. Her replies told me she hadn’t read the website and hadn’t a clue about it. Apparently I’m saying no to all her suggestions, there has been 1, and I said no as it’s over 2 hrs from me. I’ve suggested she maybe reads the website and info on Wisley before texting me, as I had checked it out before suggesting it, but she won’t.
I’m genuinely concerned that nothing is going to be sorted out. We tried therapy and as soon as our therapist asked her pertinent questions, she burst into tears, and was completely unable to handle that she needs help.
When we had our day out down at hers a couple of months back she apologised for her behaviour and I thought maybe she meant it, but….
So, AIBU to suggest we meet there and if she won’t, I back away as she’s really upsetting me and frankly we all have enough on our plates to not have family adding to our woes?

In your shoes OP, nothing on earth would stop me doing whayever was necessary to get to wherever DD wanted to meet up. I'd find the money somehow.

You're not in OP's shoes, though. It's all very well to preach about what you'd do in your own family situation, but some families have complex dynamics for all kinds of reasons. A lot of people have criticised OP for not making more effort with her daughter, but tbh the daughter sounds to me like she expects her mother to make all (or at least most of) the effort just because she has children. There are two sides to every coin.

This whole thread has been exhausting. You don't seem to have learnt anything from all the people saying super clearly how unreasonable your expectation of your daughter to drive at least 5 hours in a day with 2 very young children for a day trip is. I've yet to see any comment from you about why you can't use a train or a coach to get closer to where she lives?

I no longer believe that you have a genuine interest in building this relationship and understand why your son would be despairing of this situation with his wedding on the horizon.

I would actually suggest that OP has simply got fed up of people baying at her that she must make all or at least most of the sacrifices because small children, judging her for not having met her dgc yet, and assuming (based on very little evidence) that the strained relationship with her DD is all her own fault.

I’m also finding it quite amusing that people seem to make such heavy weather of transporting small kids these days. Parents have been doing it for generations without bleating about how haaaaard it is. Yes, it can be hard, but at one time people used to just get on with it and not expect the world to revolve around them just because they had children.

More than a whiff of ageism on this thread too imo.

In the olden days, when I was a child, we were in the car for 3.5 hour trips to visit family but that would be for a long weekend or a week visiting, it would never be for a day trip. There was no mumsnet to moan on then but I'm pretty sure my mum didn't always enjoy the car sickness or the "are we nearly there yet" or the opal fruit dribbles on our tshirts when we fell asleep or the tuneless singalongs to the Lion King for the billionth time or the waiting the other side of a barrier for another RAC man with 4 kids under 10 and a dog. However - there were also no family fallings out or fractious relationships so it was always worth it.

I understand that OP can't drive for longer than an hour and even that's maybe too much but I've not seen any reference to being able to use public transport? Trains? Coaches?

Your back in my day we just sucked it up buttercup approach doesn't remove any of the barriers to these two adult women rebuilding a damaged relationship.

I'm (probably though she hasn't given her age) the grandmother's age not the mother of small children's age. I am the mother of adult children although I had them in my 30s and none of them have children / yet. I cannot imagine not being willing to do everything in my power (yes, I understand that the OP has osteoarthritis, but she also works in a physical job 30 hours per week) to see theoretical grandchildren - school friends of mine who have grandchildren have flown to Australia annually to see grandchildren because one airfare is easier to find than four for a family, and flying long haul with small children is harder than flying in your late 50s, even if you do have some back/ knee / hip pain.

I lived a five hour drive, and later a flight plus long drive their end, from my parents when my children were little and travelling with them wasn't a "non issue" - I did it. but once there were two (and then more) of them it was extremely hard work. I travelled to stay 2+ nights - I would absolutely not have driven three hours each way for lunch!

I remember my own mother refusing to drive alone to her parents and having a row with my father because he had agreed to work when they had a trip planned - it was a one hour drive, in the late ,1970s. My parents used to plan for that one hour drive as though it was a military campaign, with snacks and drinks and books and cassette tapes and toys etc. and always a toilet break at the same place half way!

Some people's nostalgia glasses about how fantastic they were as parents are so rose tinted that I certainly hope they don't drive wearing them!

Genuine question, though, as I might be roughly around your age - do you not think people used to moan less about journeys with kids, and be less entitled about wanting people to come to them so they don't have to do it? I genuinely feel that these days there's a far bigger song and dance made about it (even though, ironically, there's more available now to entertain kids in the car!) and more assumptions made that other people should travel to those who have young families.

I remember my DSD's mum when her children were small (already going back a generation, I realise), we used to go for days out sometimes with her and her DH, DSD and DSD's sister, and you never saw such a production. She would literally come barrelling into the house going 'Come on, come on, the kids are in the car, we need to leave NOW!' as though said kids were fitted with bombs complete with timers that meant they'd detonate if the journey wasn't completed within a set amount of time. 🙄Granted they were fairly young, but OMG the drama, you'd think no one had ever driven children anywhere before, and I've noticed it a lot in the years since then. I just don't remember there being this level of fuss most of the time if you go back a couple of generations.

I get the points people are making about ways in which OP could be making more effort, but tbh I'm a bit uncomfortable with some of the assumptions, because the thing is we don't know the ins and outs of how the daughter has treated her mother over the years. It's all very well and good for people in healthy relationships with their DC to say they'd run over hot coals for them, but OP has disclosed that the relationship is strained and I think it's unfair to assume OP is the cause simply because she's expressing some preferences about travel.

I am in my 60s and we travelled a fair bit but I can't imagine my mother would have ever driven a 5-6 hour round trip for lunch out.

Holidays yes, weekend away yes, a full day out, sharing the driving with dad, - possibly, - but on her own for lunch no.

I think there's always been a wide range - even when I had my now adult kids I had baby group friends who wouldn't drive or even walk with the baby in a pram at a time which might cause the baby/ small child to sleep and therefore mess up nap or bedtime. There were also mums who'd keep their children up until midnight in the buggy while they ate out, or put them asleep in the car seat in a friend's spare room and attend a party downstairs and then put the car seat in the car and drive home. I'm not sure either extreme was good but probably the first was healthier!

I don't remember ever knowing anyone who would have put their small children in the car to drive two and a half hours for lunch and another two and a half hours back the same day. We did some long drives with breaks for actual holidays or to visit and stay overnight.

I remember my own mother being indignant once that I wouldn't take my four children aged between 1 and 6 to meet her and my brother and his (older) child at a restaurant at a "normal, adult" time, on the basis that my brother's (single) child would have been fine with just going to sleep in the buggy (and therefore it should be a non issue with my four children to do the same). When I asked her whether she took my brother and I out in the evening in that way she replied "well you would have been fine but your brother was a typical active boy and an awful sleeper..." - so no then? Well, um - no.

And as I said my own late 1940s born mother made a military campaign out of the one hour drive to her own parents and wouldn't do it without my dad. Her own mother, born between the wars, never had a driving licence, nor did she travel by train, in fact although she was unusual for her time in working even while her children were young and up to retirement despite having a husband with a fairly good job, she never went anywhere unless someone took her or fetched her, or she went on holidays with my grandfather (apparently they never took my mother and her sister on holiday but went on occssional whole family day trips, culminating in sitting on the beach in a suit for my grandfather and smart dress for my grandmother).

I'm really not sure this glorious time of mothers travelling hours for day trips with children and never complaining was ever a general norm - some people do it, most don't, and it was probably always like that. Going back to my grandparents' time I'm completely sure day trips including hours of travel each way were fairly rare.

I’m 41. I actually asked my mum, off the back of this thread, if they regularly did long trips with us in the car when we were little. She said no, as 1) they couldn’t afford the fuel and 2) my brother got horrendously travel sick and would vomited everywhere.

I think op @Buzyizzy217 had left us?

Here's a thought, this all seems to be at the demand of ops son

So she's never bothered meeting her daughters children- until her son asked her to

Now she's happy to inconvenience her daughter and 2 small children for her son's sensibilities. But not enough to make a journey herself of course

Op is favouritism of your son something your daughter complains about?

Children left alone in cars is not great so that'll be part of it.

Also I assume you've not kids do your own and only had your stepdaughters very rarely?

It is a production taking small children away. Mine are 8 and almost 5 now and it's so much easier but for years it absolutely is a lroduction

do you not think people used to moan less about journeys with kids, and be less entitled about wanting people to come to them so they don't have to do it?

The problem, is, OP is being very strict with what she will and won't do, which is fine, everyone has limits and are free to express them, but she is ALSO expecting her daughter to go above and beyond with absolutely zero though of what that would entail and complete disregard of what her daughter's and grandchildren's comfortable limits are.

No one in their right fucking mind would be driving a 5 hour roundtrip in a day with two young kids, just to meet someone for lunch.. and I don't think they would have done years ago either, for a holiday yes, but you wouldn't be driving there and back in a day, so it is completely moot.

Enter OP, who not only expects that from her daughter, but is prepared to give her the silent treatment if she won't accept that as the only 'solution' to their meeting up issue.

It's all far too 'me me me' for me to feel any real empathy with OP I'm afraid, she has other options available to her if she really wanted to see her grandchildren, but she doesn't see why she should put herself out.

Yes, that is indeed true, I agree, but I think the problem is - unless she’s been back on since and clarified - she hasn’t actually said what her other health issues are. And I guess that’s her perogative, obviously, but it’s maybe not that helpful when she’s asking for advice. But it does sound as tho AO isn’t her only issue, from what she has said it seems there are other issues, chronic health issues, and these can be very hard to manage, especially if you do have to work. As I said she may be using up all her total energy on that.
But, as I’ve also said, I think in many ways whether she can or can’t I don’t think that’s the actual problem here. It’s the relationship between her and her daughter, and it seems as though, for whatever reason (we don’t really know what’s gone on here), her daughter just isn’t ready anyway at the moment. It almost feels like the family are trying to almost force a meet up before mother/daughter are ready, like trying to shoehorn it in so that the wedding day goes smoothly. And of course, nobody wants issues on their wedding day, but this relationship does not feel as though it’s quite ready yet, and that’s the actual problem here.

You’ve never met your 4yo grandchild and you have been given the chance but are making it all about you? I’d be bending over backwards to ensure it happened - train, bus, taxi.

You may well have travelled with dc when young but your dd doesn’t want to. Unless there’s a massive back story, I would move heaven and earth. It’s 4 hours away. My brother lives in Canada and me in the uk and I’ve seen him more than you’ve seen your grandchildren in 4 years! If you wanted to, you’d make it work.

She has osteoarthritis. This is 'wear and tear' arthritis. There is no suggestion of other health issues.

Why don't you all meet at your son's house? Less pressure, more flexibility.

But given as you haven't met a four year old grandchild then there must be an enormous backstop.

You need to work out how best to support your son.
If you can be civil to your daughter at his wedding, then you don't need to meet up before.

If you can't, then don't go to his wedding

A 2 hour journey with a puker can easily become a 3hour one. Always stopping for a wee, opening windows, slowly slowly round every roundabout, how bad is it, half an eye in the rear view mirror? Then the inevitable hunt for a safe stop, don the hazmat suit, change their clothes, douse with bottled water, wet wipe and kitchen roll to clean the seat, find a bin.

You arrive at your destination but are aware that you and your child still smell slightly of sick.

And then you can look forward for another 3 hours on the way back in a car that definitely stinks of sick.

Then after your full day of 6 hours of driving you have to put them in the bath to clean them properly and launder all the clothes they were sick on. And of course you need to clean the car seats properly and replenish the "sick kit" in the car with wet wipes and spare clothes and water.

I can't blame her for feeling unenthusiastic.

No, OP hasn't disclosed any other health issues. Not necessarily the same thing.

It’s a shame as Wisley is pretty good for kids but it is a long drive for her with 2 young children and M25 could mean it’s longer. I can’t believe you haven’t met your grandchildren. I think that as the one without young children it would be nice to offer to drive all the way as make it as easy as possible for her, staying overnight in a hotel if necessary to split the drive, or go by train if that’s an option.