AIBU to suggest Wisley as a halfway meeting point with DD?

[Buzyizzy217]

I’m not that familiar with all the abbreviations on here, so apologies.
DD and family live 4 hrs from me. We have a volatile relationship, but during good times, which are usually short lived, I have made the journey twice, staying at hotels overnight.
DS is getting married next year, lives just over an hour from me, 3 from DD, and has told both of us to sort ourselves out as he obviously wants his family there, and on friendly terms. No probs. I have since made the effort to go down to see her and we had a lovely lunch and afternoon out shopping.
However,
I have reached the point in my life where I do struggle to drive longer than 1.5 hrs after a busy day, not an issue if I’m fully rested, but I’ve noticed my concentration levels drop if I’m tired.
We are trying to arrange a meet up as I haven’t actually met my grandchildren, aged almost 4 and 15 mths, yet. I suggested Wisley as it’s about 1.5 hrs for me, altho a bit further for them, and it’s a great family day out. Her replies told me she hadn’t read the website and hadn’t a clue about it. Apparently I’m saying no to all her suggestions, there has been 1, and I said no as it’s over 2 hrs from me. I’ve suggested she maybe reads the website and info on Wisley before texting me, as I had checked it out before suggesting it, but she won’t.
I’m genuinely concerned that nothing is going to be sorted out. We tried therapy and as soon as our therapist asked her pertinent questions, she burst into tears, and was completely unable to handle that she needs help.
When we had our day out down at hers a couple of months back she apologised for her behaviour and I thought maybe she meant it, but….
So, AIBU to suggest we meet there and if she won’t, I back away as she’s really upsetting me and frankly we all have enough on our plates to not have family adding to our woes?

Is there somewhere near her that has a travel lodge or premier inn - you can get some really cheap rooms for a night

It's abundantly clear that the daughter doesn't want to see her mother - she's willing to see her for her brother's sake, but her mother is clearly a difficult person, this isn't about what you'd do for your (presumably less difficult) mother.

The last time they met the daughter apologised for their ongoing strained relationship, but instead of taking the cue and apologising in return, the mother took this as confirmation that the daughter was humbling herself utterly and the mother was vindicated.

It's no wonder the mother of two small children doesn't want to take the hit on driving a five hour round trip with them, with the difficult night and following day that follows falling deeply asleep in the car in the way home for many toddlers and small children, to allow her mother (who is well enough to work as a cleaner 30 hours per week) not to bother herself with public transport and to have everything her way.

The fact that the OP keeps asserting that her daughter's challenges in travelling with small children are "not an issue" and only the OP 's health challenges are valid (coupled with the one way apology and inability to see that that was her cue to apologise in return) shows that she is not capable of seeing her daughter's point of view at all and feels her daughter is wrong and she is right, with absolutely no acknowledgement that it takes two.

Yes. I've been banging on about the train all through this thread!

It seems a ready-made solution. I mean it is there for people who can't, won't, prefer not to drive.

She said she couldn't manage that amount of driving after a long day. Presumably she's not setting out to meet her DD and DGC after a long day at work but first thing in a morning on a day off.

Wild horses and hot coals couldn't keep me from visiting my DGC who live 4 hours away. Certainly not for FOUR YEARS. Either op is deliberately obstructive or obtuse, or there's a MASSIVE backstory as to why DD doesn't want her to meet the DGC.

Agree with every word. If one's family is 4 hours away and the longest either side wants to see the other is for a 3 hour lunch date in the middle (clearly neither is invited to stay with the other) then a dead horse is being flogged.

Absolutely agree. There can be many reasons why people can’t drive the way they used to. Due to my own health issues I could never do the drives I used to love doing, to go and visit people anymore. And these are people who are extremely important and close to me, who I love, and I understands that can make it very pressured their end to have to always do the journeys to me instead, and in reality it’s often not possible and the end result of this is not being able to see some of these people very often at all, because of course they can’t just drop everything just to keep coming to visit me. I wouldn’t even be able to meet them half way. And I absolutely loved the freedom and independence that I used to have. Currently I’ve not driven now for quite some time, and there are many obstacles in my way -to even find out if it will even be possible for me to start again. And I also know that even if I manage to get that far I will never be able to drive like I used to and, to be totally honest, I find this devastating as I’m still relatively young (middle aged maybe, not sure what that actually means?), and my independence meant everything to me, but even if I can start to drive short distances again, and even then not even frequently due to health issues, even that would be amazing to me. I can completely empathise with the OP and this issue. She doesn’t need to specify all or anything she suffers with, she has been quite clear about her limitations and I totally know how that feels.

The issue with her daughter is somewhat separate - although obviously related - and I’m sure if she was able to manage the drive to visit her then she would. Doesn’t sound to me like she’s refusing for shits and giggles ffs, and some on here who are repeatedly getting at her about how she should be doing it because the daughter has kids are doubly ridiculous. Firstly, congratulations for not recognising your own privilege at not having experiences of chronic, long term health issues, many of which affect you every single day in some way or another. And secondly, of course having small children doesn’t stop people from travelling! I’m sure if the daughter was choosing to go somewhere with the gc that she wanted to she’d have no problem doing so. Christ, I know many people who flew with their kids solo at very young ages, and regularly so, and also extremely long journeys by car as families or, again, solo. In fact I don’t know many people - who could drive and afford to do so - who didn’t do long trips with kids. Yes, of course it can take a lot more preparation, and possible rest stop, but of course it’s generally doable, otherwise how have many parents managed it? People go on holidays over long distances.

But, and here’s the thing, we do not know the details of op and daughter’s relationship problems, and yes, of course this could be why the daughter isn’t making the meeting up with mother particularly easy and it may have nothing to do with the actual driving issues, or the fact that the mother is unable to drive far, but whatever it is between the two of them that may be the actual reason for her not wanting to do a bit extra driving, or making it easier for op. We honestly just do not know, there are always two sides to every story, but that still doesn’t negate the fact that op says she’s unable to drive further due to medical issues of some kind, so pp constantly telling her that she’s being selfish or she should just do it, are just absolutely ignorant about chronic, restrictive health issues, and you saying that isn’t going to magically mean she’s suddenly and miraculously cured, or that she’s just lying or making excuses (come on, many of you do think this). Enjoy your privileges and the freedoms it gives you, but open your eyes to the fact that not everyone has the same life. And for the pp who said “just drive up there and find a cheap premier inn to stay”, whooooosh…so far over their head, and perhaps needs to brush up on her comprehension skills, or just not be so utterly blind to what the op has said - regarding the driving and the financial issue.

If the relationship wasn’t so fractured - for whatever reasons or whoever is to “blame” - then I don’t think the driving would even be the issue. But that’s just my opinion on the basis of whatever op doesn’t want to reveal are the reasons for the estrangement, and she has every right to not reveal it. But, @Buzyizzy217i think you realise that the driving isn’t your actual problem, it’s the relationship. And whatever has happened to come to this point between you needs to try and be approached - somehow - before you even try and meet up. Yes, the upcoming wedding does appear to have made this almost unnaturally forced and you feel that you’re on a forced timescale that unfortunately perhaps you’d both not be ready for yet, if it wasn’t for the upcoming wedding. Be honest with yourself, would you be trying to do this right now if it wasn’t for the wedding, or would you naturally know that maybe the two of you aren’t ready and so it is causing stress to both parties?

Well I think the crying in therapy definitely suggests a back-story.

But even so, we only move through these things through effort and endeavour, and perhaps if the OP shows she is wanting to do that, the DD might feel differently about her meeting the DGC.

I agree with you about the relationship.

The driving is a red herring - she can take a national express coach or a train (she can afford to pay £20 to get into Wisley plus petrol money, she can afford a coach).
She HAS already revealed that her medical condition is osteoarthritis and that it is not bad enough to stop her working 30 hours per week as a self employed cleaner.
Anyone who can do that can manage the train or coach/ public transport.

Unfortunately some of us would need wildhorses to drag us to see the people we love. Good for you, you obviously love your children more than those of us with chronic illnesses and disabilities. Congratulations, mum of the year 👏👏 I can’t drive or take public transport to see my child, and can maybe omly visit every couple of years, at most, if someone is able to take me and who knows my health issues enough to be able to do it in a way that causes me the least worse resulting issues, and the fact that I can’t do that journey all in one go, and I need to be able to stay there long enough to be able to even begin to overcome the journey, manage to spend some time with them, and then be physically ready, and able to go through it all again the other way, and then know that it will take a long time to get over when I’m home. Add into that the fact that we’d need to pay for somewhere to stay, and for more than just a couple of nights and yes, it is difficult. I hope you never find yourself in a similar situation, despite the fact I think perhaps you probably could do with finding out just what it’s like to walk (or not walk!) in someone else’s shoes to perhaps pull your fucking mother of the year superiority back a little. But, jic, here’s your medal 🥇

And yes, of course there’s a massive back story! She’s even said as much. But she doesn’t have to share that. Yes it makes it harder to advise. But you saying what you said is just plain nasty, insulting and frankly ableist. But mostly, just plain unpleasant and a bit of twat 🤷🏼‍♀️ just my opinion, obviously.

I am lucky my dc can visit sometimes, but it’s not anything like the amount of time we used to spend visiting each other, and sometimes only possible for very short periods, but I appreciate my child has a life, a job, all kinds of everything that means they just can’t manage it often, and it’s further than 4 hours away. It’s no one’s fault that this has happened and it’s certainly not because I can’t drag my arse over hot coals, but if you want to play that game I can assure you, the amount of time and effort and the effect on my health that it has, means I literally have to put in so much more effort than you do, and mess my health up badly to do so, so maybe that means that it means a lot more when it does happen, so maybe those are my wild horses and hot coals. Your attitude sucks. Again, just my opinion. Coming out with blanket crap like that is just ignorant, and there are more people than the op reading this. Just watch out, cos your privilege is showing.

I think I agree it may be possible for her to take a coach, but it also may not. Yes, she’s mentioned she has OA but from what else she has said I don’t think this is her only health problem, obviously I could be wrong. But perhaps the fact that she does have to work 30 hours a week doing a physical job may mean that everything else is just too difficult, and if she has other health conditions that cause her such tiredness as well means she may well not be able to do much the rest of the time. I wouldn’t physically be able to do a trip (in my case over 4 hours) on a coach instead of being able to drive, and coach trips take a lot longer than a car journey would, and then to have to do it again back on the same day (she says she can’t afford a hotel) may just not be possible for her. A 4 hour direct drive is likely to take at least 5, maybe 6 hours in a coach, (and remember, her daughter doesn’t want to meet her where she has suggested, but I’m talking about actually visiting her, which a lot of pp have been saying she should/can, not just the halfway trip), so that’s up to 10 plus hours on a coach in one day. Only she knows if she can do this. Chronic exhaustion can be hard to understand if it’s not been experienced. And maybe she doesn’t have that, but even so, even with “just” oa, being on a coach that long could be absolute agony. Obviously maybe she could manage public transport to meet halfway, but also maybe not. There is obviously a lot of info missing, which means that we’re just left guessing or assuming really.

As you say, the driving is a red herring, the relationship just doesn’t seem to be ready to force a meeting due to the timescale, so I also think whether she could or couldn’t manage a coach is likely similar, I just think neither of them (or one or the other) are ready at this point, so even my scenario above, whether correct or not, is also probably slightly irrelevant too, and I am aware of that. I guess I’m just coming to this from my own experience and trying to put across a possible viewpoint that sometimes some things just aren’t possible or easily solved. Let’s be honest, I do t think any of us are really going to solve op’s original issue, re the driving, because it’s perhaps not the actual issue, and I don’t think any of us can help her with the problems in the relationship, and that’s the main issue here, I think.

I really think high-energy places like these two, and someone else suggested legoland, would be a lot worse.

The four year old would be super excited and distracted, hard to calm down in the car afterwards- at least if anything like mine for this kind of meetup a calm garden, space to run around, loads to see with a great little playground where the adults could chat would be way more suitable.

Theme parks are great but full-on and not much down/unwind time.

Anyway I think the location is a bit of a red herring, and as someone else said the travel arrangements may well be too, they need to get to a better place in the relationship where they want to see each other, build relationships with grandkids etc first.

YABU

Having 2 young children is also ‘tiring’. It does seem a lot of what YOU want, OP. You haven’t met your 4 year old grandchild?!

I would drive a couple of hours for a theme park, not for a garden centre. As one of the children is 4, Chessington is ok as it would be toddler rides and the zoo, not the big rides. Imo it would be better to have something the kids will love and the OP dips in and out of their company. So that was my thinking.

My daughters are adopted and we met up with birth family years later. General advice is to meet somewhere busy with stuff to do so the meet is not so intense between the parties if that makes sense. I think similar might apply here too.

She works 30 hours as a cleaner. That is a physical job.

She can drive 90 mins after a busy day.

She does not have YOUR health issues

Has there been any explanation of why OP can't take the train to somewhere of mutual interest? In London or the seaside etc? (not knowing approx where each party is coming from makes it hard to make practical suggestions). I think OP has become a bit fixed on what she would enjoy - but she mentioned that her DD had suggested somewhere 10 miles from Wisley last year - so that would be 10-20 minutes extra driving - so why hasn't OP suggested this?

I would have been very reluctant to drive a 5 hour round trip with 2 toddlers for what is essentially a lunch out. As OP/dd have been estranged for at least 4 years it sounds pretty stressful to have 2 young children who may be irritable/overexcited after 2½ hours in the car, formal gardens full of plants that must not be touched and a tense meeting when you don't know each other.

TBH - it feels like OP has only (grudgingly) agreed to meet because her son wants it. The DD has attempted to offer olive branches in the past by OP seems to have dismissed them as evidence that she is "right". Perhaps, if you are not keen on finding a way forward with your dd - it would be better just to drop the pretence and tell your son you don't really want to.

And you don't think that, just possibly, the 30 hours' cleaning work might take up most of her energy, and the 1.5 hours' driving (regardless of time of day, before anyone starts quibbling) might be where her energy runs out altogether?

(OP, not meaning to speak for you - I just know first-hand what it's like to have to parcel out a limited store of daily energy, and am wondering if that's the issue you encounter with driving, especially with a physical job in the mix. Not that you have to justify your energy levels to us despite what some on here seem to think!)

Drive the day before and stay in a hotel .enjoy day with family then stay overnight. Drive home. That’s how a weekend away works.

I can’t believe you have never met your grandchildren! It would be very interesting to hear your DD’s side of things .

And also OP many of us travel to see family without driving, get a train.

I’d not be taking a 4 year old to Wisley as well as a 15 mth old, and a long drive with a fractured relationship.

I totally understand where you're coming from but surely she has annual leave or days off? Fair enough if she can't drive but doing 30 hours of cleaning a week would mean she can absolutely manage travelling, whether that be public transport or whatever. I used to be a domestic cleaner and that job is physically VERY hard, a car journey, train journey or bus journey would be an absolute doddle in comparison.

I mean if my mom had never met my 4 year old, I wouldn’t be making special effort to get to her.

...This is not about trains/Premier Inns/finances or the relevance of a meeting area they decided on X years ago that is only 10 miles from Wisley.

The OP wants her daughter to "give in" on this because she believes this fractured relationship is due to "her behaviour". That's it.

You need to save up and get a train and stay in a Premier Inn and go and meet her, and meet your grandchildren.

If you want a relationship you need to make the effort

Ah fair enough, that makes sense r.e making the meetups less intense.

Your daughter is ambivalent about this meeting and introducing her children to you, it's not worth it to her especially if she has to do extra leg work for something she sees as only beneficial for you.

You don't sound that interested in your daughters children, your post is very much, me, myself and I..... your pov about previous situations comes from an uncaring place, you consider yourself very much a victim here which is an unhelpful starting point to fixing your relationship, you see this as a power play, like this breakdown needs to be fixed singularly by your daughter, it's bizzare behaviour from a mother and grandparent.