To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

Ukraine has sacrificed many lives in the face of an aggressive war monger
They have also lost land, although I think they still have Russian land?
Obviously, they also have massive displacement and rebuild their country
They want security for the future after the previous two atrocities

I really hope they don't sign away too much of their minerals for flimsy security, having lost so much. 😕 They didn't start this, and other countries shouldn't benefit. It's despicable. I don't think they should give anything. Conversely give lots for Nato membership

And if I see one more person believing all the lies about the value of the support they've had, and saying money has disappeared...and not acknowledging the help given boosted US manufacturing and was older equipment. Of course, still essential help, but stop lying about the relative funds given and the terms of those funds!

It looks like the EU are now moving to proposing a mineral deal

Poor Ukraine, so many want so much

From the Times

"The Kremlin has denied a claim by President Trump that Russia would accept European peacekeeping troops being deployed to Ukraine as part of a potential deal to end the conflict"

I know. Surely they’re going to need their minerals and natural wealth more than ever after this war!

None of this was their fault, and they should be allowed to rebuild, not be crippled by debt/ encumbered by “deals” to give away their resources?

And what does this say to any other countries who may want to invade others or may get invaded? That the perpetrator gets away with it whilst the victim is punished for resisting!

Edit - I hadn’t seen who was posting this when I replied!

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing it's ok I'm sure the world won't end if you agree that Ukraine is in a very tough position and many feel sorry for them

As for The Times update on peacekeeping troops I doubted Trump had got that acceptance, posted on those lines earlier

I suppose it makes sense though, Europe wants to up defence spending to support Ukraine, it has to be paid for somehow. I would like to see a cohesive plan on manufacturing and self reliance rather than relying on Asia. I do suspect a European deal would be more palatable than the American one of payment for services rendered with no guarantees.

If they get long lasting, robust security then I would say its worth it. I think I saw something about using Russian frozen assets to pay for rebuild, not sure how true it is

I don't think it will be robust enough though. And Russia will return for the 3rd time

I suppose mineral wealth in the ground is not much good when paying for the expenses of the country. There are so many countries, I’m especially thinking on the continent of Africa, that have been thoroughly screwed. Corruption has led to a small number of people gaining enormous wealth whilst corporations have made millions if not billions. The country itself and its people haven’t benefited.

I’d be hoping for a partnership based endeavour with Ukraine and EU working together to realise the wealth with money being ringfenced for defence spending and Ukraine’s financial needs.

We'll see. Zelenskyy is usually adamant he wants US security, as are most EU leaders tbf

The press conference was entirely about trying to get that security.

Depends if Trump is in a deal too, outside of it and worth thinking on what Russia and US would do next.

Great. Now we are paying less in overseas aid to fund defence. Would much rather pay higher tax than screw over more vulnerable countries

Thats true. I think though having a viable plan B gives you negotiating power. Trump has said Zelensky holds none of the cards having the E.U. Offer on the table gives him a hand to play.

but maybe the time has come to be pragmatic?

He's got cards. Minerals. Major card

The value of those minerals will be determined, in part, by demand.

I know. We do not want Ukraine to give in a mm more than barely neccessary, both for their sake and the rest of Europe.
We need something that grants peace. And to make our own peace by investing in our own defence.

Trump is a proper walking piggy bank, just money money money. But all wars have ended with massive debts to be paid. First and second world war costed Europe whole generations taxes. I am not even sure we have finished paying it.
We can clearly see who controls the world. Forget about democracy. It is money. The money of the big war machine. Make guns, sell guns, rebuild whole countries, steal from said countries, provoke wars, make guns, sell guns....
How can we get ourselves out of this loop?
We were doing well and it only takes a few phychopaths to put us back in the middle ot it, in one single move.

It's only a few years since we paid America back for WW2.

Yes they were loans.
The financial aid to Ukraine was never a loan

I do agree that Ukraine is in a very tough position - I’ve been saying that all along!

It just seemed at odds with everything else you’d said so I then assumed you were being sarcastic.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing I've always felt for Ukraine. I joined the early long running threads but found some if the rhetoric difficult around anti sentiment

I had to think for a moment why you'd added the edit I don't really recall discussions, it's a changing situation. The press conference was interesting and with many moving parts.

My main position is still fairly consistent. This is awful for Ukraine, Putin invaded, the deaths are incomprehensible and awful, and we should avoid escalation

If you were disgusted before...boy you should turn on news right now to hear Zelensky and Trump and Vance speak/argue ..yay gods I feel sorry for Zelensky..it's a set up.

I'm watching it! Horrific

I don't think I can bear to do so 😟

WTF! I've never seen anything like it!

And I thought I’d seen it all with the Golden Trump Gaza video!

Bloody hell!

Never seen anything like this before

American statesmanship. What a joke they are