To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

Democratic Worldwide Defence Alliance? DWDA?

Just pondering what a new defence alliance without the USA, but with, say, EU, Canada Greenland, Australia etc could be called....

He won't achieve the aim of taking Ukraine, we can't get him out of the crimea, we can't go into Ukraine because that would cause ww3, oil prices are keeping him going.
He has millions of people to chuck at the war, in history Russia has worn people down through sheer volume of numbers.. It has the backing of north Korea, nuclear and possibly Iran and China to a degree.

Fucked?

https://fullfact.org/news/uk-gdp-defence-spending/

UK defence spending: explained

Sadly I won't be allowed to post links/references, wholettheturnipsburn, since even with reputable sources they'd certainly be deleted by HQ in the current pro-Zelensky zeitgeist - which IMO is, or rather should be, different from being pro-Ukraine and its people who don't deserve any of this

However if you want to research yourself I'd recommend Reuters reporting as a reasonably decent place to start

It will go back to being a disputed border. There are many disputed borders in the world. We had one here in the UK for seventy years that included the entirety of my childhood.

https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/
So the US have given less than half of all donations
The UK, Netherlands, Canada, Denmark and Sweden have all given a higher proportion of their GDP in 2021.

A further more recent analysis📧

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-after-3-years-of-war-aid-flows-remain-low-but-steady-shift-towards-weapons-procurement

I don't believe the US entirely gets to call the shots here, and certainly cannot force Zelensky to accept anything where he is not involved.

Trump is overstepping the mark, as with Gaza, Greenland, Canada, and the Gulf of Mexico, it is all so bizarre I feel he must be joking but as it all unfolds I fear he is not.

@Puzzledandpissedoff I'm up to speed with "research" thanks

I was asking what you meant by "posing". It wasn't a trick question

@sleepwouldbenice Also, it doesn't bear thinking about considering what they've done already to occupied areas.

We'd be condemning Ukrainians to death anyway

Except you have no idea what Putin has agreed.

When Trump publicly put his foot down re: Gaza ceasefire, it was reported that he was “putting pressure” on and being firm with Netanyahu. We can now see though that it wasn’t the case, and that they had agreed a mutually beneficial plan between them (and never intended the ceasefire to continue once the hostages have been released).

It seems a little naive to believe that he has just given Putin a “gift” without getting anything in return.

Nope
Just listened to a very informative debate on it. Taking collective economic positions and trade into account. Interesting

So are you there fighting for ‘your’ country?

If that included sanctions, g8 exclusion etc then maybe. But it wont

Gift for himself/ maga yes, not for Ukraine or others

Unfortunately no, as someone with very limited mobility in one leg due to sepsis I wouldn’t be of much use. I guess you could catapult me over enemy lines? But I wouldn’t worry, I have lost 2 uncles, 1 nephew, 3 cousins and countless friends fighting. Many more family and friends have been fatal casualties from the bombing. I’m in a ridiculous amount of debt moving people out of Ukraine and into safe countries in Europe. Sit back and watch I guess.

I am sorry to hear your friends and family have suffered so much.

The war seems to be a joke on here to some, with their nasty jibes about the Ukrainians.

@Milkmani8 Slava Ukraini

@bemoresloth as per my first question on the thread I'd like to know the risk of sending our troops and what happens if combat returns.

It looks like I'm not alone, reading up on other leader responses. We won't be able to do it anyway without Germany and Poland.

We may be the most keen, backed by eager Labour posters on mn, but thankfully other leaders are considering it more carefully.

That's a nasty reply.
PP is disabled, lost relatives and friends, not to mention the hurt that comes from seeing one's home country torn apart - and in debt due to her own efforts.
But you call that an 'excuse'...

No answer then

As for eager Labour posters, you yourself as an eager anti Labour poster will not agree with anything the government proposes?

No one in their right mind is "eager" for military personnel to be put in potential danger.

To suggest posters on here are "eager" to see this happen is a gross and offensive distortion of what has actually been said and deliberately inflammatory.

I am glad that post was removed. Hope you are OK @Milkmani8

@bemoresloth it was an answer. If you want something else write it yourself.

Rn I'm relieved to read other leaders are less gung ho than Starmer

Whether they are centre left or not.

The soft sell of Starmer in combat gear isn't for me, and I have zero appetite for cheering on politicians sending young people. So yeh I'm wary on spreading do it posts.

@Bewareofthisonetoo Your comment has been deleted, I haven’t read it. To many the situation is a joke but I’m not sure why. I don’t want the war to carry on, I’ve lost enough people and so has everyone I know. But the fact is by allowing Russian the annexes you are agreeing to the fact the ex-Soviet republics should be returned to Russian. Most people have no idea how many ethnic Russian enclaves and cities there are amongst the Baltic states and countries like Moldova. British knowledge of the Soviet Union is limited for the majority and the atrocities that many of us witnessed even as children wouldn’t be believed by some.