Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

I responded to that upthread :

There is no response I could possibly give you that would invite anything but hostility. I have learned this through experience.

How do you see this working?

Every one of us knows that there has never been a definition of transwomen offered up that isn't one of the following ...

Circular
Based on a 'feeling'
Based on gender stereotypes

So we'll continue to wait I guess 🤷‍♀️

"Im not hear to share my knowledge" 😂

Why not have the courage of your convictions and post it publically? Nobody's going to bite. I'd be interested too as no one ever seems to be able to answer.

The pressure of cognitive dissonance. Genderist posters in general can't defend their ideology/worldview in any rational way, and they know it. It's not rational to believe that every male who says he is a woman, is a woman, and certainly not to claim that you have any care for women's rights if you do. It's all just empty posturing. And when called on it, IME genderists cannot answer, so they just insult people and leave.

Debate and disagreement doesn't equal hostility. Are you being hostile towards me when you disagree with the pints I make? I would say not.

I think you know why you won't answer and it's because you've got nothing. It's a cop-out. Post it and if you get hostility you can report us, right?

Yep. But then they tell us to educate ourselves. How can we if no one will answer even the most basic of questions for us?

Ah, the typical TRA excuse. 'Oh you'll just be hostile' meaning, you'll call my definition into question with analysis and scrutiny.

You aren't fooling anyone. You're using typical COWARDLY excuse 'oh you'll be MEAN to meeee!'

You 'debate' like a 7 year old.

You've conceded defeat. Your 'definition' does not stand up to any scrutiny.

You know it. I know it. We all know it.

You're a coward. Just like all MRAs.

https://archive.ph/NhzFG/0f4a0466ac16dab7161ec5ad8214c7c8056f5b18.webp

We don't need this rubbish in our hospitals, and any other public places.

Oh please you just don't want to recognise all the flaws in your "knowledge".

I have educated myself, that's why I'm now a TERF. Like all other women who have educated themselves.

Ditto. Funny how this works, huh?

You are welcome to believe this.

Hi Piggle, you've offered various opinions and information on this thread, and engaged in discussion/argument, all perfectly legitimate. Why is this different?

Well yes, but it won't have been because the TRAs were so forthcoming with their various definitions and explanations, will it?

I too was once a "what's the problem? Live and let live " type until I learned better for tons of educated women! Very few trans activists wanted to help me learn more about it all.

Yep. But then they tell us to educate ourselves. How can we if no one will answer even the most basic of questions for us?

Quite. Luckily there's Mumsnet for people told elsewhere on social media to "educate themselves"! I conclude from the lack of defence of these apparently strongly held views that genderists don't have any arguments which go deeper than telling people what they are allowed to think.

It's the truth anfd you know it. What's the harm is stating the definition of a woman if you're confident it's correct and you can argue your position?

We put ourselves out there every day to hostility just because we believe in the reality of sex so you're either a coward or you have no argument if you can't do the same with your beliefs.

Very few trans activists wanted to help me learn more about it all.

There's a reason for that.

I was about to say the same thing but you got there first.

So you’d be perfectly fine with your daughter changing next to a big man with his penis out?

If so, quite frankly, you’d be an unfit mother.

I think it is an important question.

However, I would like to know why single sex spaces, in your opinion, should be divided based on someone's philosophical belief?

Because a male declaring that they are female is based now purely on their philosophical belief that they are female. There is no materially objective science behind the claim. And it is no longer even to be based on a medical diagnosis. That burden has been removed. It is now just based on philosophical belief. Founded, it seems, on postmodernism and most likely queer theory works by Michel Foucault (I suggest readers look this man up for an idea of just what motivated some of his work in this area).

Therefore the only commonality for people with transgender identities is that their philosophical belief. Meaning no one needs to comply with another persons philosophical belief. No one. No matter how kind or respectful that person who is trying to shame you into complying tells you that it is to use the preferred language, it is someone who is demanding that you support their own philosophical belief.

Thank goodness for Mumsnet where we are actually allowed to have these discussions without being deleted/banned etc.

Yep. I was previously live and let live, and, shamefully, spent a period of 'Trans Women Are Women'.

It was through the evasiveness, the lying, the cowardly refusing to answer any questions on this site (and a couple of others) that I became TERF - or rather, MERF.

It's those like the piggles that are the ones that 'peaked' me.

I thank them for that.

And I have no doubt fellow readers on here who were, 'meh' about the topic are reading piggles posts and being 'peaked' too. They really are the best weapons we have in our toolchest. They are the reason their side is losing this war. They are their own worst enemies.

When Venice Allan set up what may have been the very first event about all this in 2017, called We Need To Talk, she invited Stonewall to come & discuss women’s vs trans rights.

Instead TRAs intimidated the initial venue into cancelling, & on the night beat up a woman in her 60s and stood outside the venue shouting BURN IT DOWN. I know because I was there.

Maybe if Stonewall (and Press for Change before them) had done things differently, and pushed for trans people to be accepted and respected either within third spaces or the spaces belonging to their own sexes, things would be very different now.

Well, presumably any female only space has an organisation in charge of it, any pre-op transwoman attempting to use the space gets reported. Of course you'd think that any disturbing behaviour getting reported would lead to a ban on further use, which is obviously not happening here.