Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

Well to do that you'd have to actually define what a trans person is, and what a woman/man is. And you have been unable to thus far.

Why ? And why are you referring to natural women as cis ? It’s offensive.

You can call it what you wish but under your proposal there is a single sex provision and I and other women will take that happily.

Yes, feel free to paint a big red cross on the door if you like, we all know two things: most women will prefer to use it, and so will the males who want to use women's spaces. They won't be satisfied with a fake women only space, they'll want to invade the real one.

The ones who are wanting to use female spaces are sexual predators.

So to be clear, it is your position that any trans woman and girl asking to use the facilities for women and girls is a sexual predator?

Well, there obviously is a need for the debate or we wouldn't be having it 😄

I think for most it's not really about where they are safe but where they feel they "belong" and feel they should be allowed to go. There may be various reasons for this.

By definition they are sexual predators who have the burning urge to be validated by showing their naked male body to females against their will

BTW

What is a trans woman?

At the very least they know they will be making some of the women in there uncomfortable or scared. Not very kind is it?

There's literally no such thing as a cis gender critical.

People who call themselves cis accept the legitimacy of gender. People who are gender critical reject it.

Most women identify as neither of those things but don't want to take their clothes off in the presence of male strangers.

No facility for women and girls can ever be 'inclusive' of males with their cock and balls.

Only a sexual predator would suggest a space set up by our foremother feminists to keep male bodies out, should have males with male genitals in them.

Males with male genitals have no business changing in front of women and girls.

ONLY a sexual predator would say they do.

Why ? And why are you referring to natural women as cis ?

Why? Because you said it’s a violation of your safety and privacy to change with a trans women. So this facility would be for gender critical women who aren’t trans women.

They don't "ask", because they have zero respect for what women and girls in the majority feel about it.

No, they’re not asking. That’s the problem.

Yes. Because they are not women or girls. And the ones with a cock, balls and sporting erections, are not women.

Those are called - females

BTW
What is a trans woman?

I think anyone who thinks they require access to unconsenting naked women and girls is a sexual predator, yes.

People who call themselves cis accept the legitimacy of gender. People who are gender critical reject it.

Most women identify as neither of those things but don't want to take their clothes off in the presence of male strangers.

This. Only genderists identify as "cis". It's meaningless gender identity ideology jargon.

No, clearly not, but how can we tell which ones are or aren't?

I'm sure you will not deny that there are a lot of men out there who are predators and who will go to great efforts to get access to girls and women to predate on (I know that's not the right word but can't think of another!)

But you're advocating for a third space yourself, so, by reason of reality, one will be exclusively Male, one will be exclusively Female and one will be Unisex (so as not to 'out' Transwomen - according to your own argument).
And you're saying you would choose to follow a Transwoman in to their safe space to cheer lead them on, when all they want to do is pee? I'm not sure I'd feel safe with you if I was a Transwoman tbh.

Male boundary pushing is a major red flag for women. In and of itself. You should read "The Gift of Fear".

Why would females, 'gender critical' (which is 99% of all women) or not, need a third space, when female is the space for them? They are not the sexual predators wanting to expose themselves.

Transwomen (males) are the ones wanting to insert themselves into a space they are not wanted.

They use the males, or the third space. That's it. Full stop. Period. That's the ONLY compromise possible.

Only a sexual predator would suggest a space set up by our foremother feminists to keep male bodies out, should have males with male genitals in them.

So to be clear, all trans women who want to use female facilities are sexual predators? And all non trans women (like me) who accept trans women and girls in their spaces (without policing their genitals) are also sexual predators?

I am pointing out that your solution leaves women and girls to be harmed. People have raised this issue with you and you keep dismissing it. You dismiss it as too hard / complex / whatever.

It is not.

Third spaces such as those being forced onto the female nurses are prioritising the male employee. It leaves other female employees in a position where they can be harmed, even indirectly.

Genuine third spaces where both sexes can use the space if and when they need mean that the male employee who doesn't wish to use the male space can use that space along with anyone else. ie. it is not a 'punishment' space. All people have the freedom to use that space OR the space that corresponds with that person's sex. Not their gender.

The only way the third space becomes 'outing' and 'stigmatising' is if it was publicly known that only male people who have a philosophical belief that they are female are to use that space. If it was a private arrangement between the person and their manager, why would it be 'outing'?

@PiggleToes was suggesting that trans men need to be validated by having women in their spaces.

Any man who wants access to women's spaces, knowing that vulnerable women need single sex areas for their own safety has predatory instincts - I'd say.

And I think that you have articulated it well here: Ray Blanchard argues (after extensive research & clinical work with male transsexuals) that there are two broad types:

the feminine homosexual man, such as Blaire White, who's open in acknowledging he's biologically male and is very open to discussions about this. Generally want to transition when they're young (although Ms White has talked about why they're not contemplating surgery).

the autogynephile - a sexual fetish in which a man fantasises about making love to himself as a woman. Often when a man reaches middle-age & often a level of affluence, with a family etc. Then they feel established enough to "come out" and require everyone see them as they see themselves ... It's usually the AGP men who are most vociferous about "transwomen are women" and deaf to discussion with women. BEcause they've never been anything other than privileged.

Actually, the idea of a third space for gender critical/ reality believing women is growing on me. It would keep women hating women like @PiggleToes away from me.