To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

🤣. Says exactly what I thought. This is the fresh news, the other genocide happening in other countries and regions is old news. Lovely.

People have really short memories on this conflict. Israel have been committing atrocities against the Palestinians for decades, but are completely backed up by the Americans who are so desperate for an ally in the region. Hamas are always the bad guys whenever they fight back, but any retribution from the Israelis is way worse as they have power and money the Palestinians don’t. Even the Israeli defences are way better than anything the Palestinians could get.

@RudsyFarmer not at all. Start a thread on Ukraine then and I’ll happily discuss it with you. This is about Gaza & Israel.

Are you insinuating that there is no peace in Israel/Palestine because the people in Palestine aren’t sick of war? In Northern Ireland most people did not support the paramilitaries, at any time. There was a negotiated peace settlement from bringing both sides together to talk. This is what has to happen here, but the divide is so entrenched I don’t see how it ever can.

agree!

Hamas doesn’t want them to leave.

I’ve tried to find figures online but it’s difficult. Hamas isn’t made up of a few hundred people. It has at least 10,000 fighters. Around 1,500 attacked Israel. They need the civilian population to act as human shields.

It’s not a war if one is powerful and one side has no army.

When the Manchester arena was bombed, people were able to separate the actions of terrorists from the general Muslim population.
We stood together and sang "don't look back in anger".
I think the way that Israel has reacted is heinous. They are wiping the children of Palestine off the map.

How can airlifts possibly happen without a ceasefire?

@SoShallINever yes that’s a great way of describing it

Can the men just go fight it out somewhere separate? I want the children to stop being hurt.

Sorry, but Hamas is supported by the majority of Palestinians in Gaza.

When Hamas was formed in 1987, they had minimal support from Palestinians. But in 2021, support for Hamas dramatically increased as AP News reported:

apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

In 2022, respected Palestinian pollster Khalil Shikaki and his Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) carried out a survey looking at Palestinian support for armed groups. Main takeaways below:

• 72% of Palestinians support forming more armed groups in West Bank

• in Gaza, 84% of respondents supported concept of armed groups taking NO orders from the Palestinian Authority. This is HIGHER than in the West Bank where 65% supported the idea.

www.pcpsr.org/en/node/924

So, the support for Hamas, Lion's Den and other Palestinian armed groups is there from the Palestinian population. A minority do not support them.

At the same time, Palestinian support for the Fatah party led by President Abbas in the West Bank has collapsed to as low as 14%. Abbas is struggling to keep control of the Palestinian Authority territory in the face of support for armed groups such as Hamas.

Important to note that Abbas' Fatah party also has an armed wing - Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. So, there is a LOT of Palestinian support for terrorist groups overall.

So, not all Palestinians support Hamas. But it is NOT wrong to say that Hamas have the majority Palestinian support. That may or may not change in future.

Israel is also a terrorist at this point. What’s your point?

@DownNative still doesn’t make collective punishment any less of a war crime under international law though

Yanbu. Heartbreaking what's happening, how can the deaths of innocent civilians be the answer to anything

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I've just sent an email to my MP. It's terrifying.

Hamas did win the elections in Gaza - they're not "just" a terrorism group.

Did I say it did?

Next time don't make a Strawman Argument which is a logical fallacy. 🤦‍♂️

Anywhere else in the world those in charge would have at least begun evacuating women and children to the south.

Incorrect. States are not classified as terrorists.

Only NGOs like Hamas, PIRA, UVF, ETA, etc are.

@DownNative i wasn’t. But it’s the idea that just because Hamas were elected, it somehow makes the current actions legitimate.

Can the men just go fight it out somewhere separate? I want the children to stop being hurt.

Hamas specifically want as many children as possible to be hurt, I suspect.

2.3 million people in Gaza. 15,000 to 20,000 fighters in Hamas. Those 2.3 million are not responsible for the heinous acts of Hamas, and they do not deserve to be punished for it. What a horrible, intractable mess.

Genocide is what The Nazis and other fascists tried to do to the Jewish people in the last century.

I don't think this is anywhere near the same.

You’re correct. We had the troubles and the IRA but Great Britain didn’t shell and blockade entire cities killing hundreds and hundreds of children