To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

@Okeydokedeva
You’re ok with ethnic cleansing then, as long as there are other countries in the world sharing the same religion/skin colour as the people being ethnically cleansed?

What on god’s earth is wrong with you?

The problem is nobody seems to want the Palestinians. Apparently, Egypt don't want an influx of refugees - so where do they go? It's appalling. (Equally if they do leave, then Israel will have what it wants which is direct occupation of Gaza and the Palestinian's will no longer have a home to return to).

I do feel that, in this instance, taking a middle ground is appropriate - Israel and Palestine desperately need peace and stability - violence only begets violence. Hamas is an evil terrorist organisation and the majority of Palestinian's do not support them, and didn't vote for them. But, unlike with Afghanistan, for example, where people can separate the Taliban from the Afghan people living under an oppressive regime, people don't seem to be able to separate the Palestinian people from the terrorists trying to control them. And I keep seeing PPs (on other threads) talking about how Palestinian's are responsible for what's happening - they're not, Hammas is.

Yes sadly. There will be no winners. Except for those that have acquired shares with the US Arms makers.

What people do and what they say aren’t the same.

This is worse that the civil wars in Ireland, although it isn't a competition. If we have learnt anything from those times/ vietnam etc it should be this will not be the end of it. Broken people with nothing left to loose are being created right now, even as children. It is absolutely terrible and I have no idea why the west could support it.

You CANNOT justify Israel’s actions by blaming Hamas. The bombing is done by Israeli soldiers with the backing of our government and America, whole buildings full of residential flats are being razed to the ground. Ambulances and journalists targeted. Whole extended families obliterated, they’re running out of water and food. Israel controls the food, electricity and water because they are the occupiers.

Anyone justifying this is lacking in morals and humanity. How can anyone want this to be done in their name?

The US and UK weren’t supporting the bombing of Mariupol.

This is what it comes down to.

Only one side beheads babies and videos little boys being burned alive.

Hamas has done this to their own people.

Would help if you had a basic grasp of history if you want to try and assert knowledge.

The root cause goes a lot further back than 75 years ago.

@Okeydokedeva what human rights abuses are you referring to in the Baltic?

So you support ethnic cleansing and are being openly racist. Well done.

International law is clear destroying electricity installations is not NECESSARILY a war crime.

It wasn't when we blew up Iraq's in 1991 for Operation Desert Storm/Operation Granby.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63754808

So you think bombing babies out of the sky is more human? Over 500 already.

the Israeli army themselves denied that babies were beheaded, it is propaganda to fuel outrage and allow them to continue this genocide.

This is all on Hamas. This is what they unfortunately want - they are sick. It is well worth reading these sources to hopefully help people to understand Hamas's brutal terroristic strategy that puts both the lives of Israeli's and Palestinians lives at risk.

1. https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf document from NATO explaining how Hamas using innocent citizens from Gaza as human shields.
2. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181056/ document from the UN showing how Hamas " deliberately place children at risk from Israeli counter-terror measures by co-locating weapons and terror infrastructure inside schools, hospitals, and mosques."
3. https://www.newsweek.com/gaza-could-have-been-singapore-hamas-turned-it-isis-opinion-1833145 article showing how Hamas have created an ISIS like state in Gaza.
4. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah#:~:text=Overall%2C%2057%25%20of%20Gazans%20express,who%20support%20Fatah%20(64%25) analysis that shows that allegedly " 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas"
5. https://palestine.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures-1 document showing how endemic abuse towards women is in Gaza.
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism_in_the_Gaza_Strip this shows how Palestinians in Gaza live under Hamas.
7. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12613241/hamas-commander-israel-just-beginning-gaza-strikes.html apologies for being the Daily Mail, but it shows the mindset of the Hamas leader who claims "The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me."Al-Zahar said he believes ultimately the whole world will fall into line with their views. The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity..."

Completely agree OP, the children of Gaza will pay for Hamas' crimes.

In my mind this is the current situation-

my partner has been killed in a horrific dehumanising violent way. So to get justice Iam going to go to the killers House that contains his children and elderly parents but i do not know if he is inside. First I will cut off all water and electricity and starve them for a while. Then I will barricade the doors and set fire to the house and prevent anyone from saving the children.

That is Israels justice. What a mess

Thank you @DownNative for your informed posts. It must be tiring.

As always, one of the first casualties of war is the truth.

HRW has not 'verified' the use of white phosphorus, it has claimed it. The claim is yet to be verified. There are legitimate uses of phosphorus in all sorts of operations, including military; even the RNLI uses phosphorus flares.

No it’s on the ones who are dropping bombs on civilian buildings. It’s a war crime whoever is doing it. Hamas’s attacks don’t justify genocide against a civilian population with nowhere to go.

The original people of Palestine were the Philistines, this is where the name Palestine was derived from,todays inhabitants of there are fairly recently arrived Arabs and their descendents, who are not indigenous to the area.
Jewish people arrived in the area over three and a half thousand years ago but were largely driven out later by Romans and Islamic crusaders ( not to forget our own crusaders).
After driving the Jews out the Arabs decimated the area then buggered off back to Arab lands. At the end of the 1900s European Jews, after hundreds of years of persecution ,returned to their homeland actually buying their own land back from the absentee Arabs. What then followed was a trade boom and prosperity ,seeing the transformation of the land c1917 on Arabs decided to roll back up and benefit from this.
However the Muslims and the surrounding Muslim countries were never happy with this and have wanted to wipe Israel off the map,they do not want a 2 state solution only every Jew removed.
After winning the war against their neighbours the Jews allowed the Arabs to remain, thinking jobs, education and healthcare would civilise them and they'd all get along. Instead they have endured decades of terrorism ,slaughtering of children and targeting of civilians. When the Palestinians launch bombs the Israelis let them know beforehand they are going to retaliate and tell them to take civilians to safe areas , Hamas instead choose to let their children be killed to further their cause and then accuse the Israelis of terrorism . The Palestinians use their own children as human shields whilst declaring " the land demands blood."
The Israelis have a state if the art defence system and retaliation goes exactly back to the area from whence the attack originated. Should they sit by and watch their own children murdered? They give fair warning how many enemies do that? Instead they endure bigotry and false information from savages and their idiot supporters.
I am not Jewish, but I'm also not an antisemite or ignorant terrorist supporter, as so many on here .

Lyce Ducet on the BBC reports the Israeli government’s aim is to destroy the network of tunnels under Gazan residential properties that Hamas use and to destroy Hamas resources. She noted to the tunnels have been built under the buildings that’s residents live in and use and therefore require evacuation. She also noted the difficulties of evacuating Gaza within 24 hours and given the state of Gazan roads.

According to Reuters “Human Rights Watch said it verified videos taken in Lebanon on October 10 and Gaza on October 11 showing multiple air bursts of artillery fired white phosphorus over the Gaza city port two rural locations along the Israel Lebanon border”

Ignoring the laughable propaganda in your first few paragraphs, if they have state of the art targeted weapons why do they need to destroy entire buildings full of families? What is fair warning when there’s nowhere to go?

It’s genocide when you’re turning a whole city to rubble and all the exit points are closed.

I feel desperately sorry for all the innocents caught up in something that they have no control over.

Isn't it more the case that 'my partner has been killed in a horrific and dehumanising way' and my children have been taken hostage. So I am going to the killers' house and will do what I feel I need to until my children are released?

I know that we have no way of knowing for sure whether or not Israel will immediately stop the attacks and seige if all the hostages are released, but if Hamas wants to protect their population, releasing the hostages would be a good first step. And move them much nearer the moral high ground (as much as possible, given that they took the hostages in the first place.0.