To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Hezzbollah getting in on the act now, day of anger.

@DownNative there is also a narrative that says that Israel are a respectable western nation whereas palestine is full of terrorists. Neither are true. It just gives the Israeli government a fake moral imperative. It’s bullshit.

Jordan cancels tomorrows summit with Biden

If you keep on spewing out circular reasoning and unsubstantiated posts, your thread may well be zapped.

At this point and given your posts tonight, I honestly don't think you're posting to ascertain truth to anything in this conflict.

Praying that Israel manages to rid the world of the vile group Hamas.

This seems to have suddenly got so much worse, what a mess.

Air strike on a hospital

And this is how seriously our government have been taking the situation. Giggling!

https://x.com/haggisuk/status/1713936288942821846?s=46&t=1F3GXoDvLPajCYTYkHKGg

@DownNative so you are alllowed to give us your version of what’s going on but I also posted opposing information & that’s considered spewing out circular reasoning. Right. Got it.

The facts about what happened at the hospital will no doubt come out over the next 24 hours but what is not remotely in doubt is that thousands have died in Gaza and will continue to die.

22 Arab Nations and UN call for immediate ceasefire and return of the hostages

Humanitarian aid still sitting on the wrong side of the Gaza-Egypt border and IDF continues to bomb Rafah and the border crossing

Joe Biden flies into a Middle East in tumult

Iran raises a black flag over a beautiful golden domed mosque in the middle of the night and freaks out Twitter

It's actually a sign of mourning - not vengeance

This is a bit mis-leading - it;s 22 Arab Nations plus UNs Antonio Guterres

UN security council meets later today and hasn't made a resolution yet wrt Hamas-Israeli war

@Efacsen thanks for your posts on this thread- they are informative 🙏🏻

I think bombing the hospital yesterday is going to change things for Israel. It's much harder for the west to pretend war crimes aren't happening now.

Blaming a Hamas rocket is straight out of the Israeli playbook. They're so predictable!

Tbh when trying to ascertain truth, it's better to look to independent but respectable third parties. IDF and Hamas are in a propaganda war as much as a physical conflict. They are not impartial, reliable sources.

Israel is supported because of the disgusting acts of Hamas and the loss of innocent lives.

Israel is not supported because of its actions in Gaza with the cutting of electricity and water. If it proves the bombing was the actions of the state then support would once again change.

Incredibly naive to say the world supports Israel.

Everyone should be calling for restraint. 1 life is a life too many, so much death in this conflict.

I rsad a very moving piece yesterday calling for Arab nations to stand agaisnt violent terrorism and call out hammas, hezzbollah and help the palestinians and isreal live together in peace by dropping the religious rhetoric.

Right and wrong goes out the window because one side is Muslim.

What will happen if proof comes in it's hammas! Will all these nations, iran, Lebanon rail agaisnt hammas? Or does that suddenly become collatoral damage whilst they fight the invader??

Attached is a map of tunnel networks in Gaza. Currently, it's north Gaza being strategically bombed - lots of tunnels there

Can't strategically bomb a very heavily populated area and city without risking very high civilian deaths, even the IDF said the aim is destruction not accuracy.

All of Gaza is being bombed.

The Israeli Defence Force even drop leaflets telling civilians to leave for south Gaza. If a genocide is the intent, this isn't what you'd do

Yes you would because you know full well 1.1m people (some of whom are too old, young or sick to move) cannot leave via bombed roads, no transport and to go where? is there an empty city in the South?
& when some did, 70 were killed when another Hamas rocket "misfired"

About as genuine as Russia's denials that they also don't target civilians.

I initially backed Israel 100% but they are going far to far now, even before the Hospital bombing.

All they are doing is ensuring the next generation of Hamas etc.

Over 21 countries including Ireland, Scotland, Spain, and Norway have spoken against Israel's use of collective punishment; their bombing of civilians and their failure to provide a safe, passage for people and aid.
Global organisations and networks have also condemned Israel including the WHO, UN Secretary General, MSF, Amnesty, etc.

The airstrike has freaked out people but innocents are dehydrating to death and that’s not apparently a red line.

Not everyone has forgotten

There's a meeting UN?WHO in Cairo tomorrow with PM El Sisi about the humanitarian aid

And the UN Security Council is meeting later today

The world food program has 300 tonnes of food waiting at the Egyptian border but Egypt has to negotiate with Israel to allow the aid into Gaza. I'm not sure why Israel has the authority to control the Egyptian border.

This is from AP at 16.46 yesterday.

CAIRO — Egypt is still negotiating with Israel on the delivery of humanitarian assistance and fuel to Gaza from its crossing points, Rafah and Kerem Shalom, a senior Egyptian official said as trucks loaded with aid waited for permission to cross into the besieged territory.

The official said Israel is searching all aid deliveries and wants to “ensure that such aid won’t benefit Hamas.” The official requested anonymity because he does not have permission to discuss the negotiations.

He said they’re also negotiating a compromise that would allow foreign passport holders to cross into Egypt. Egypt has proposed that the United Nations oversee the process with help from Egyptian forces, the official said. Israel has yet to respond to the proposal.

The U.S., Qatar, the U.N. and several European countries are involved in the talks, which are led by security agencies in Egypt and Israel, the official said.

Israel has had agreements with Egypt about who/what goes over the border before

And yes it requires some kind of ceasefire as well

So

@IveHadItUpToHere

"Tbh when trying to ascertain truth, it's better to look to independent but respectable third parties. IDF and Hamas are in a propaganda war as much as a physical conflict. They are not impartial, reliable sources."

++++

I think this underlines why threads on this topic are now pointless and why they keep getting pulled by Mumsnet.

The views on both sides are so deeply entrenched that facts and evidence will not change each side's conviction or beliefs.

Any third party with the ability to provide independent evidence will be dismissed by the other side as not independent.

Even if the Israelis provide information showing the missile as coming from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad then this will be dismissed as Israeli propaganda. Even if the PIJ provide evidence of the missile coming from the Israelis then this will be dismissed as PIJ / Hamas propaganda.

There is no rational fact based debate on this topic for neutrals to form their own opinions just each side putting out their own deeply held convictions citing news sources that back their views or half stories or even complete misinformation.

So these threads do not inform or debate they preach and will never change the other sides view which is why they are pointless and why they keep getting deleted.

Can I suggest to all the people saying these threads are pointless and should be pulled - that you just leave the threads to the people who want to discuss this? It's a huge news story and a humanitarian tragedy. We should have a right to discuss it.